> *Originally posted by **[batsuki](/forums/1058760/topics/1868557?page=2#13329500)**:* > > *Originally posted by **[manowar999](/forums/1058760/topics/1868557?page=2#13320730)**:* > > > *Originally posted by **[Dimmy](/forums/1058760/topics/1868557?page=2#13320005)**:* > > > Hello, could you clarify AutoBuyer recomendations for Floor e20+ please? Im trying to think of what Layers (1-3 or 3-1) are x\5\3 (x\4\2) and seems can't understand... > > > > Hi Dimmy, > > > > x/5/3 just means... > > > > layer 1 = x (or 1.01x), layer2 = 5 (or √√√√√), layer3 = 3 (or √√√) > > > > Basically left-right follows lowest-highest prestige layer. > > I'll include this in the guide to avoid unecessary confusion in the future. > > > > Note that these autobuyers are structured in almost the opposite way from when we used lower layer priority; the 1.01x failsafe is now put in the lowest prestigable layer rather than the highest. > > Man, you really have the will to help, congratulations to you, you are a very nice guy! Thanks! :D

I'm in first ascension layer and ended up doing a bunch of double and triple window tests to see which autobuy options and how many prestige layer skips worked best. Here's what I found (for 2 stat boosts and reduced prestige point/improved floorskipper): Setting autobuyers to 3/2/2/x is substantially faster than 4/3/2/x or 5/4/3/x. Like, 30-40% faster than 4/3/2/x, which is itself better than 5/4/3/x. I also tried out 3/3/2 and 2/2/2, but neither of them worked as well as 3/2/2 At the point I'm at, longer runs aren't really much faster than 2 AP runs. I can get to 2 AP in around 2 hours, and 1 AP/hour is also about what you get for going higher, but you don't get all the perk points. It's also fastest to switch to skipping a layer around prestige layer 11-13. Skipping 1 layer vs. 2 layers at a time are nearly identical until you get to around layer 20, where skipping 1 layer is just better. Prestiging as soon as you hit a new layer is just worse than skipping a layer between layers 13 and somewhere in the 30s.

are we not supposed to use autobuyers for levels greater than 4?

> *Originally posted by **[ximane](/forums/1058760/topics/1868557?page=3#13333263)**:* > I'm in first ascension layer and ended up doing a bunch of double and triple window tests to see which autobuy options and how many prestige layer skips worked best. Here's what I found (for 2 stat boosts and reduced prestige point/improved floorskipper): > > Setting autobuyers to 3/2/2/x is substantially faster than 4/3/2/x or 5/4/3/x. Like, 30-40% faster than 4/3/2/x, which is itself better than 5/4/3/x. I also tried out 3/3/2 and 2/2/2, but neither of them worked as well as 3/2/2 > > At the point I'm at, longer runs aren't really much faster than 2 AP runs. I can get to 2 AP in around 2 hours, and 1 AP/hour is also about what you get for going higher, but you don't get all the perk points. It's also fastest to switch to skipping a layer around prestige layer 11-13. Skipping 1 layer vs. 2 layers at a time are nearly identical until you get to around layer 20, where skipping 1 layer is just better. Prestiging as soon as you hit a new layer is just worse than skipping a layer between layers 13 and somewhere in the 30s. These tests are very interesting - just keep in mind a few factors which will effect optimal autobuyer settings * Soft prestige upgrades *improves higher layers* * Floor number (scales with soft prestige) *improves higher layers* * Reduced Prestige Point Requirement *improves higher layers* The further you progress through the game and get these upgrades and reach higher floors, the more you will need to start focusing on higher layers. This is why in my guide I actually recommend autobuyer settings with higher layer priority that will eventually completely remove layer 1 from the prestige cycle and start implementing higher layers like 5-6. These autobuyers were based on eQueline's testing. 3/3/2/x is something which I experimented with myself and even put on the guide for a brief time before I realized that it's useful for such a short period of time (between two autobuyer settings) that it was more likely to cause confusion than be helpful. For rushing ascension during AL1. 3/3/2/x is probably one of the best autobuyer settings to use due to the way it speeds up the recovery portion of the run - from my brief testing 4/3/2 then outscales it around layer 18 (though I don't remember my exact upgrades at the time). Rather than explaining that you should use 3/3/2 at this time and then swap to 4/3/2 at layer 18 I decided I wouldn't bother with it - since there was already a lot of clutter on autobuyer settings and there is a lot of uncertainty to it. I think I might try to include this kind of explanation in the guide so it's easier to make your own decisions on autobuyer settings. Thing is others have found that 5/3/2/x works best at a very similar point and so on and so on - the number of different factors that effect autobuyer settings make it difficult to actually test them properly.

> *Originally posted by **[sloppyknoll](/forums/1058760/topics/1868557?page=3#13333862)**:* > are we not supposed to use autobuyers for levels greater than 4? Hi, Early on no, later on there are different upgrades that will make higher layers useful again (past ascension layer 1) At that point the guide will have updated recommendations.

At around 150 accumulated AL2 points i had enough PerkPoints to activate everything... And i've stopped doing long runs, only "to max PL"->Auto-Ascend->repeat. Longer runs don't give as much AP\h which we want to maximize.

> *Originally posted by **[manowar999](/forums/1058760/topics/1868557?page=3#13334084)**:* > > *Originally posted by **[ximane](/forums/1058760/topics/1868557?page=3#13333263)**:* > > I'm in first ascension layer and ended up doing a bunch of double and triple window tests to see which autobuy options and how many prestige layer skips worked best. Here's what I found (for 2 stat boosts and reduced prestige point/improved floorskipper): > > > > Setting autobuyers to 3/2/2/x is substantially faster than 4/3/2/x or 5/4/3/x. Like, 30-40% faster than 4/3/2/x, which is itself better than 5/4/3/x. I also tried out 3/3/2 and 2/2/2, but neither of them worked as well as 3/2/2 > > > > At the point I'm at, longer runs aren't really much faster than 2 AP runs. I can get to 2 AP in around 2 hours, and 1 AP/hour is also about what you get for going higher, but you don't get all the perk points. It's also fastest to switch to skipping a layer around prestige layer 11-13. Skipping 1 layer vs. 2 layers at a time are nearly identical until you get to around layer 20, where skipping 1 layer is just better. Prestiging as soon as you hit a new layer is just worse than skipping a layer between layers 13 and somewhere in the 30s. > > These tests are very interesting - just keep in mind a few factors which will effect optimal autobuyer settings > * Soft prestige upgrades *improves higher layers* > * Floor number (scales with soft prestige) *improves higher layers* > * Reduced Prestige Point Requirement *improves higher layers* > > The further you progress through the game and get these upgrades and reach higher floors, the more you will need to start focusing on higher layers. This is why in my guide I actually recommend autobuyer settings with higher layer priority that will eventually completely remove layer 1 from the prestige cycle and start implementing higher layers like 5-6. These autobuyers were based on eQueline's testing. > > 3/3/2/x is something which I experimented with myself and even put on the guide for a brief time before I realized that it's useful for such a short period of time (between two autobuyer settings) that it was more likely to cause confusion than be helpful. > > For rushing ascension during AL1. 3/3/2/x is probably one of the best autobuyer settings to use due to the way it speeds up the recovery portion of the run - from my brief testing 4/3/2 then outscales it around layer 18 (though I don't remember my exact upgrades at the time). > > Rather than explaining that you should use 3/3/2 at this time and then swap to 4/3/2 at layer 18 I decided I wouldn't bother with it - since there was already a lot of clutter on autobuyer settings and there is a lot of uncertainty to it. I think I might try to include this kind of explanation in the guide so it's easier to make your own decisions on autobuyer settings. > > Thing is others have found that 5/3/2/x works best at a very similar point and so on and so on - the number of different factors that effect autobuyer settings make it difficult to actually test them properly. Ah, yeah, that makes sense. I also realized that I felt the need to adjust the autobuyers shortly after I'd cleared the Speed and Even/Odd trials, which also have a pretty significant impact on runs. In hindsight, I suspect the trial boosts are a large part of why I've been finding lower autobuyer settings more effective. Did your testing include the trial boosts or not? I've found that in general, the autobuyers (while you're still below PL25 or so at least, I haven't done significant testing past there) work best if you're prestiging layer 1 3-4 times before layer 2, and layer 2 2-3 times before layer 3. I adjusted autobuyers accordingly to continue to do that (and am continuing to adjust them, having just recently hit AL2, I'm now using 3/1/1 for lower layers), and my double-window tests have largely confirmed that around that ratio of prestiges, regardless of the autobuyer settings required to hit it, is hard to beat with any other setup. I haven't done any testing comparing these settings to the x/4/2 or x/5/3 settings because I haven't actually gotten up to floor e20 (my highest floor is 1e19).

> > Ah, yeah, that makes sense. I also realized that I felt the need to adjust the autobuyers shortly after I'd cleared the Speed and Even/Odd trials, which also have a pretty significant impact on runs. In hindsight, I suspect the trial boosts are a large part of why I've been finding lower autobuyer settings more effective. Did your testing include the trial boosts or not? > > I've found that in general, the autobuyers (while you're still below PL25 or so at least, I haven't done significant testing past there) work best if you're prestiging layer 1 3-4 times before layer 2, and layer 2 2-3 times before layer 3. I adjusted autobuyers accordingly to continue to do that (and am continuing to adjust them, having just recently hit AL2, I'm now using 3/1/1 for lower layers), and my double-window tests have largely confirmed that around that ratio of prestiges, regardless of the autobuyer settings required to hit it, is hard to beat with any other setup. I haven't done any testing comparing these settings to the x/4/2 or x/5/3 settings because I haven't actually gotten up to floor e20 (my highest floor is 1e19). This general milestone is useful yes but does get ruined by soft prestige later on unfortunetely. For me I try to prestige the layer that gives the greatest relative increase in multiplier, due to soft prestiges you will have to consider that prestiging a higher layer for less multiplier can result in lower layers also increasing their multiplier. Ascension trials would likely speed up recovery and have a similar effect to increased stats from other sources, with the exception of the prestige discount which is likely better for lower layers. Ascension trials didn't exist when I did my testing in AL1.

Could you elaborate on the speedrunning strategy? I think im either missing something or misunderstanding the idea. Its recently been taking me around 10 seconds to ascend L1. A new run after an ascension will instantly take me over L20 after the first kill, which if ive read your section correctly is when speedrunning should be done because im exceeding the ascension threshold without prestiging. Yet i cant ascend without prestiging, i have to at least manually prestige to L20 to be able to ascend. This alone is causing me to gain offline time while prestiging which, in turn, makes my next run shoot though the layers when i return to the battlefield tab. The difference this makes to AP/hr is insane. If i let offline time smash through it then im looking at around 800AP/hr whereas manually prestiging, if i catch it at the right time, is getting me upwards of 5kAP/hr. Problem is it is SO HARD to catch at the right time because of the 20 - 30 seconds of offline time gathered while prestiging. If this is how its meant to be then ill just have to live with it but it doesnt feel like 'speedrunning' when i have to click between tabs like a madman to manually prestige 20+ layers every 20 seconds

> *Originally posted by **[Sam2k11](/forums/1058760/topics/1868557?page=3#13336624)**:* > Could you elaborate on the speedrunning strategy? I think im either missing something or misunderstanding the idea. Its recently been taking me around 10 seconds to ascend L1. A new run after an ascension will instantly take me over L20 after the first kill, which if ive read your section correctly is when speedrunning should be done because im exceeding the ascension threshold without prestiging. Yet i cant ascend without prestiging, i have to at least manually prestige to L20 to be able to ascend. This alone is causing me to gain offline time while prestiging which, in turn, makes my next run shoot though the layers when i return to the battlefield tab. The difference this makes to AP/hr is insane. If i let offline time smash through it then im looking at around 800AP/hr whereas manually prestiging, if i catch it at the right time, is getting me upwards of 5kAP/hr. Problem is it is SO HARD to catch at the right time because of the 20 - 30 seconds of offline time gathered while prestiging. If this is how its meant to be then ill just have to live with it but it doesnt feel like 'speedrunning' when i have to click between tabs like a madman to manually prestige 20+ layers every 20 seconds You just let it run with according team composition (i am using WCCCCP, which gives me around 40sec to PL20), and manually ascend at leayrs that don't have autobuy yet. You will get more and more AP\run with more and more claimed AP at each AL. Also you will get a lot of PP this way and will be able to switch on everything at around 150 point AL2. At AL3 i could probably wait till i have 3-4 points but decided to ascend with 1 point two days ago and i am almost to get another AL3 point.

> *Originally posted by **[Dimmy](/forums/1058760/topics/1868557?page=3#13337658)**:* > > *Originally posted by **[Sam2k11](/forums/1058760/topics/1868557?page=3#13336624)**:* > > Could you elaborate on the speedrunning strategy? I think im either missing something or misunderstanding the idea. Its recently been taking me around 10 seconds to ascend L1. A new run after an ascension will instantly take me over L20 after the first kill, which if ive read your section correctly is when speedrunning should be done because im exceeding the ascension threshold without prestiging. Yet i cant ascend without prestiging, i have to at least manually prestige to L20 to be able to ascend. This alone is causing me to gain offline time while prestiging which, in turn, makes my next run shoot though the layers when i return to the battlefield tab. The difference this makes to AP/hr is insane. If i let offline time smash through it then im looking at around 800AP/hr whereas manually prestiging, if i catch it at the right time, is getting me upwards of 5kAP/hr. Problem is it is SO HARD to catch at the right time because of the 20 - 30 seconds of offline time gathered while prestiging. If this is how its meant to be then ill just have to live with it but it doesnt feel like 'speedrunning' when i have to click between tabs like a madman to manually prestige 20+ layers every 20 seconds > > You just let it run with according team composition (i am using WCCCCP, which gives me around 40sec to PL20), and manually ascend at leayrs that don't have autobuy yet. You will get more and more AP\run with more and more claimed AP at each AL. Also you will get a lot of PP this way and will be able to switch on everything at around 150 point AL2. > > At AL3 i could probably wait till i have 3-4 points but decided to ascend with 1 point two days ago and i am almost to get another AL3 point. Run CCCCCP instead of WCCCCP for speedrunning. It'll do you much more good.

> *Originally posted by **[Sam2k11](/forums/1058760/topics/1868557?page=3#13336624)**:* > Could you elaborate on the speedrunning strategy? I think im either missing something or misunderstanding the idea. Its recently been taking me around 10 seconds to ascend L1. A new run after an ascension will instantly take me over L20 after the first kill, which if ive read your section correctly is when speedrunning should be done because im exceeding the ascension threshold without prestiging. Yet i cant ascend without prestiging, i have to at least manually prestige to L20 to be able to ascend. This alone is causing me to gain offline time while prestiging which, in turn, makes my next run shoot though the layers when i return to the battlefield tab. The difference this makes to AP/hr is insane. If i let offline time smash through it then im looking at around 800AP/hr whereas manually prestiging, if i catch it at the right time, is getting me upwards of 5kAP/hr. Problem is it is SO HARD to catch at the right time because of the 20 - 30 seconds of offline time gathered while prestiging. If this is how its meant to be then ill just have to live with it but it doesnt feel like 'speedrunning' when i have to click between tabs like a madman to manually prestige 20+ layers every 20 seconds Hi Sam, When speedrunning at this point, I usually prefer to simply let the game continue for as long as it can prestige new layers. This enables me to reach layers 45+ at the moment which gives far greater rewards than ascending at layer 20 after a single floor clear would give. Basically just let the autoascend and autounlock new layers perk do their magic, you should be good to go. I doubt there is ever a situation where it is more efficient to ascend early when you can reach a new prestige layer after a single floor clear. You only need to manually ascend layers 2+ assuming you don't have autobuyers to do it for you. Manually ascending through a bunch of prestige layers is too time consuming, you can throw on 2 layers worth of skip but I don't think this actually makes much difference, however I do use the 'wait until floorskip becomes small' perk. Honestly I don't think it makes much difference either. I'm able to prestige through at least 2 layers with each floor for the most part so I'm content with that.

> *Originally posted by **[Sam2k11](/forums/1058760/topics/1868557?page=3#13336624)**:* > Could you elaborate on the speedrunning strategy? I think im either missing something or misunderstanding the idea. Its recently been taking me around 10 seconds to ascend L1. A new run after an ascension will instantly take me over L20 after the first kill, which if ive read your section correctly is when speedrunning should be done because im exceeding the ascension threshold without prestiging. Yet i cant ascend without prestiging, i have to at least manually prestige to L20 to be able to ascend. This alone is causing me to gain offline time while prestiging which, in turn, makes my next run shoot though the layers when i return to the battlefield tab. The difference this makes to AP/hr is insane. If i let offline time smash through it then im looking at around 800AP/hr whereas manually prestiging, if i catch it at the right time, is getting me upwards of 5kAP/hr. Problem is it is SO HARD to catch at the right time because of the 20 - 30 seconds of offline time gathered while prestiging. If this is how its meant to be then ill just have to live with it but it doesnt feel like 'speedrunning' when i have to click between tabs like a madman to manually prestige 20+ layers every 20 seconds this was a "bug" in the calculator, cause manual prestige didnt affect time, so in 0~5 seconds you reached pl20 so the the AL points you would get in 55 seconds, you got in 6, but in matter didnt affect your real gains, only the number in AL/h now you can't do this anymore cause manual prestige cost the same game time of auto prestige

> *Originally posted by **[batsuki](/forums/1058760/topics/1868557?page=3#13368012)**:* > > *Originally posted by **[Sam2k11](/forums/1058760/topics/1868557?page=3#13336624)**:* > > Could you elaborate on the speedrunning strategy? I think im either missing something or misunderstanding the idea. Its recently been taking me around 10 seconds to ascend L1. A new run after an ascension will instantly take me over L20 after the first kill, which if ive read your section correctly is when speedrunning should be done because im exceeding the ascension threshold without prestiging. Yet i cant ascend without prestiging, i have to at least manually prestige to L20 to be able to ascend. This alone is causing me to gain offline time while prestiging which, in turn, makes my next run shoot though the layers when i return to the battlefield tab. The difference this makes to AP/hr is insane. If i let offline time smash through it then im looking at around 800AP/hr whereas manually prestiging, if i catch it at the right time, is getting me upwards of 5kAP/hr. Problem is it is SO HARD to catch at the right time because of the 20 - 30 seconds of offline time gathered while prestiging. If this is how its meant to be then ill just have to live with it but it doesnt feel like 'speedrunning' when i have to click between tabs like a madman to manually prestige 20+ layers every 20 seconds > > this was a "bug" in the calculator, cause manual prestige didnt affect time, so in 0~5 seconds you reached pl20 > so the the AL points you would get in 55 seconds, you got in 6, but in matter didnt affect your real gains, only the number in AL/h > now you can't do this anymore cause manual prestige cost the same game time of auto prestige Well, I hate to break it to you, but it absolutely did affect real gains. When the actually-instant runs were possible, they were fixed after a week of using it resulted in people like myself rushing way ahead of everyone else. When the prestige scripts were useful, they resulted in being 4x faster than those who didn't use them. Speed runs however are very much still possible. You simply ascend once you've hit the end of the prestige unlocks and poof, you've got yourself a speed run.

> *Originally posted by **[FroggerbobT](/forums/1058760/topics/1868557?page=3#13368575)**:* > > *Originally posted by **[batsuki](/forums/1058760/topics/1868557?page=3#13368012)**:* > > > *Originally posted by **[Sam2k11](/forums/1058760/topics/1868557?page=3#13336624)**:* > > > Could you elaborate on the speedrunning strategy? I think im either missing something or misunderstanding the idea. Its recently been taking me around 10 seconds to ascend L1. A new run after an ascension will instantly take me over L20 after the first kill, which if ive read your section correctly is when speedrunning should be done because im exceeding the ascension threshold without prestiging. Yet i cant ascend without prestiging, i have to at least manually prestige to L20 to be able to ascend. This alone is causing me to gain offline time while prestiging which, in turn, makes my next run shoot though the layers when i return to the battlefield tab. The difference this makes to AP/hr is insane. If i let offline time smash through it then im looking at around 800AP/hr whereas manually prestiging, if i catch it at the right time, is getting me upwards of 5kAP/hr. Problem is it is SO HARD to catch at the right time because of the 20 - 30 seconds of offline time gathered while prestiging. If this is how its meant to be then ill just have to live with it but it doesnt feel like 'speedrunning' when i have to click between tabs like a madman to manually prestige 20+ layers every 20 seconds > > > > this was a "bug" in the calculator, cause manual prestige didnt affect time, so in 0~5 seconds you reached pl20 > > so the the AL points you would get in 55 seconds, you got in 6, but in matter didnt affect your real gains, only the number in AL/h > > now you can't do this anymore cause manual prestige cost the same game time of auto prestige > > Well, I hate to break it to you, but it absolutely did affect real gains. When the actually-instant runs were possible, they were fixed after a week of using it resulted in people like myself rushing way ahead of everyone else. > > When the prestige scripts were useful, they resulted in being 4x faster than those who didn't use them. > > Speed runs however are very much still possible. You simply ascend once you've hit the end of the prestige unlocks and poof, you've got yourself a speed run. without a script would only affect real gains, if you keep repeating it like a robot, and with a script you are likely a hacker hahahahaha

> *Originally posted by **[batsuki](/forums/1058760/topics/1868557?page=3#13370098)**:* > > snip > > without a script would only affect real gains, if you keep repeating it like a robot, and with a script you are likely a hacker hahahahaha Putting a script on and hacking aren't even remotely close to being the same thing. Plus you're clearly missing the point anyway.