[Comprehensive Civ Tier List](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JRiGKRc_FkvwgtONRAvs_t2Wf-3qUmP7O2F6opHnJLc/edit?usp=sharing)

Romans as C class? The hell they are! I may not play anymore because I got sick of the leaks and the export system not helping but the super swordmen can wipe out the map instantly.

Weird guide. English and Americans S-Tier? Really? Their units come to play too late to make a difference! Persian are C and Greeks D? But Hoplites>Immortals! Immortals cheaper, but cost is not a limiting factor. Assyrian D and Australian F? Australian bonus definitely better then Assyrian. Because any bonus better than bonus for no-use unit.

Not as far off as you think. UK/Americans listed as S teir ***IF*** military spec on on Odin run. Notice he downgrades them to B or C for other specs Persians vs Greeks... yeah, I see what you're saying, but look at it this way: Both the Hoplites and Immortals end up being replaced by pikemen anyway. If you stockpile them and upgrade them tpike when it is available, 1000 Hoppers vs 1000 McClouds could be a signifigant difference in price if the run is short on gold, such as if you're running with a shortage of trade routes due to civ spread early on. Also, iirc, thier defense stat is the same, and for the most part that is what they are for. Asyrian vs Australian: Yeah. ANY civ whose "special" power is a seige engine . . . ick. Just ick.BUT, you know that that special will be available for use (at the proper research level of course) regardless of where the cities actually are. The ability to build catcus farms in the desert doens't do you a whole lot of good if you dont happen to have a desert handy. And once you've done a Coatlicue run or two, or 1 good bulb run, food production is pretty much a non-concern anyway

> *Originally posted by **[KaptainKaveman](/forums/1066161/topics/1903434?page=1#13397175)**:* > Not as far off as you think. UK/Americans listed as S teir ***IF*** military spec on on Odin run. Notice he downgrades them to B or C for other specs > > Persians vs Greeks... yeah, I see what you're saying, but look at it this way: Both the Hoplites and Immortals end up being replaced by pikemen anyway. If you stockpile them and upgrade them tpike when it is available, 1000 Hoppers vs 1000 McClouds could be a signifigant difference in price if the run is short on gold, such as if you're running with a shortage of trade routes due to civ spread early on. Also, iirc, thier defense stat is the same, and for the most part that is what they are for. > > Asyrian vs Australian: Yeah. ANY civ whose "special" power is a seige engine . . . ick. Just ick.BUT, you know that that special will be available for use (at the proper research level of course) regardless of where the cities actually are. The ability to build catcus farms in the desert doens't do you a whole lot of good if you dont happen to have a desert handy. And once you've done a Coatlicue run or two, or 1 good bulb run, food production is pretty much a non-concern anyway > No, topic starter is right - Australian bonus is useless. Cities can growth by Workers so you dont need additional food for cities growing, only for upkeep citizens. For Favor runs you need Faith spec cities that dont matter where its are, for Bulb runs you need Production spec cities with many hills on tiles around. And for both runs you need several cities without any desert around with Gold spec and 2-3 cities with many forests around (you lucky if its with Science spec). As you see, you dont need cities with desert tiles so Australian bonus is useless.