So I've managed to kill the new boss and reincarnate...wasn't easy. He's kind of confusing as well. Hit him with fire, and once you do enough fire damage (measured by red bar at top), you can hit him with any kind of damage and bring him down...I wrote some tips on another thread; I'm no expert, but I was able to kill him (once). To give an idea of how powerful I was, my gold cap was at 350k, I had never beat Octobadie, and I did very little scripting, but did use a script to farm golem cores (the added defense helped a lot)...so he should be killable by a lot of players (including non-scripters), though I think I did get more than a bit lucky when I did kill him. I'm not going to duplicate the wiki by putting down a bunch of information, but rather say what is good and not good about the update. **GOOD:** - **NEW CONTENT!** Thanks, devs, for all your hard work and expanding the game. - Reincarnation pretty much wipes out everything, which puts scripters and non-scripters on more even footing. I'll discuss what the long term advantage of scripters is, but it's not as bad as I expected. - Reincarnation allows for auto-capturing through "Happy Captures," addressing one of the most annoying issues in the game (and also reduces the gap between scripters and non-scripters). - Power of Replication allows for more than one item dropping at once. I presume this will ignore the drop limit, i.e. you get two of every drop instead of one if you've bought a level. This will not only help get higher level items, but will also help immensely in getting those pesky missions with crazy drop requirements. It is rather expensive, though...5000 spirit for level 1, which is about half of what I had, and I expect that will be pretty typical. - The enchanted beast clock means that, eventually, the gem upgrades will be considerably more powerful. I don't know the actual equation used, but it has 50 levels maximum, at about 9% discount per level, which would put the cost somewhere around 1% the current cost once maxed. This doesn't mean you would get 100 times more levels, but just that you would get to a given level 100 times faster (which isn't as powerful as it sounds, because the increase in time is very steep). This helps with gems, but even if you max the upgrade, don't expect it to be OP, and I'm only mentioning it because it helps with a major issue of the game (the overall weakness of gem upgrades). - Cartography addresses the high number of area clears required for missions by counting each clear more than once, and it doesn't cost very much. Unfortunately, you don't get it for your first reincarnation; you start with nine spirit upgrade options and must purchase "Unleash New Spirit Upgrades" to buy three more options. Cartographer is the only one that is very good, and even if you buy additional spirit upgrades, it won't let you invest in cartographer on your first reincarnation. On the plus side, it's pretty inexpensive to buy, so eventually those missions will be quite simple. **BAD:** - The new boss is rather difficult to beat, and HOW to beat it is a bit mystifying. There are already threads from frustrated people. I think the success of the scripters is at least in part responsible for that (as it was for the difficulty level of Octobadie). However, this new boss is definitely not nearly as tough as Octobadie, even if it is complicated and confusing to kill. It's bad enough that I would say that a complete overhaul or at least major revisions to the boss are in order. - The first reincarnation adds little to your total power. It will take several, or maybe even many, before you notice a real difference. This means you are basically starting over with a handful of perks...still, you get to keep your mission bonuses, which definitely help a lot. - Even though scripters will be brought more in alignment with everyone else, they still have major advantages. - There were definitely some changes that I would have liked to see, such as removing the advantage of fast rebirthing (both in general and by reversing the decision to have total rebirths as part of the reincarnation equation). This is the part where I go over the advantages that scripters still have. Given that nearly all advances are wiped out, scripters will not be nearly as far ahead after reincarnating. Here is what they still have, advantage-wise: * They will have more spirit per reincarnation. Total number of reincarnations is part of the equation, and they are the only ones that are going to get a lot for that on every reincarnation. * They will be able to reincarnate faster and more often than everyone else. Remember that you only get one heart upgrade per reincarnation, which makes it beneficial to reincarnate often. * They will be able to get mission milestones faster and easier than anyone. This is probably one of the best advantages; having 300 milestones gives a huge bonus, and who's to say what 350 and 400 will give? * Once they have all the heart upgrades and have upgraded their essential knowledge a few times (which will happen for them much earlier than it will for non-scripters), they will be able to advance through the remaining areas/new content much easier, which may continue to affect future difficulty levels and development decisions. I think that, with the new changes and inclusions of things like addional drops, auto-capturing, and extra area clears, non-scripters will be able to do even the hardest missions and get through the game material...albeit much slower and not until they have reincarnated a few times to actually be able to purchase several levels of each of those things. All-in-all, this is a more acceptable situation than it could have been. The fact that reincarnation completely wipes out most of the advantage of progressing past Octobadie balances things a lot, and I think the changes are a pretty major improvement to the game.

Using this thread to suggest some tweaks to Montblanc (new boss). As others have mentioned, this has turned an idle game into an arcade event. Sadly it creates a skill wall that some players will never pass - and worse it's for a critical mechanic of the game. If you can not physically beat this boss - you can not play the game. With that in mind - I'm recommending a few tweaks based on personal observations of 20-30 attempts, and conversations with others. (For reference I was very close to being able to idle farm 6-7 with nothing more than warrior skills and Angel Haste and Muscle) 1. How many hits are needed to break the nut. My warrior couldn't do more than 10% of heat? per Green bar using a single fire spell. My wizard took it down in two sets up green bars. I don't know how a warrior is expected to survive to break the shield in that situation. Review how the shield is broken, how many hits and what skill set ups the players can reasonably use. Please don't require 'the one true way' skill setup. 2. Frequency of green bars. I heard someone mention 1 out of 10 bars is green. After 5 bars, you've either understood the mechanics or not. 5-7 is more reasonable. Let us actually fight the boss - not play dodge ball with yet another spiky ball. Which leads to the 3rd point. 3. Spiky balls stay and basically instantly kill most players. Some players can take 1-2 hits, but in general they will kill you instantly. This could be dealt with, except for the part where you have to survive 9 rounds to reach the Green bar stage (which last seconds only) So even if it only takes you two rounds to break the shield, you can still have 18 spiky balls on the floor. Realistically I had attempts with 10+ spiky balls on the floor due to simple plain bad luck. Please put a limit on the total number of balls on the floor, or have them vanish after a certain amount of time. I've heard the arguments that you can control where they land and just take them to the edge. The reality is I'm not perfect and after 4-5 balls things start to get rather haphazard. If you can control that, congrats you are an elite player and perfect. Please enjoy the rest of the day knowing you are elite and perfect - and please make allowances for those of us who are not. 4. Speed. Not attack speed - but movement speed. Some people beating it are having to purchase the movement speed control through the Epic coin shop. Simply put, once you reach a certain speed you can not fine tune your characters movements. In a bullet hell game that requires precision movement. Players should not be required to make a purchase to complete a required game mechanic. Remember all those spiky balls? Good luck controlling where they land when you can't even control your movements. 5. Charge swing is absolutely required. Remember when I said that I could almost farm zone 6-7? My slime sword balls had a damage of e18 with charge swing. My fan swing was e15 and no other skill approached these two skills. The boss without the shield has e20 hp. Without charge swing, no class can effectively kill the boss. Remember what I said about 'the one true way'? That's boring and anyone who can't see it, or talking to someone who tells them how, will just give up and walk away. Please reconsider how you have currently implemented this boss. Most players doing idle/incremental are doing it because they don't want to play arcade games. You're forcing them into a bullet hell game they don't want to play. If this was optional - a stat boost or a side bonus this would be reasonable. This is a required mechanic to advance within the game and you've created a wall that not every player will be able to complete.

> *Originally posted by **[Bahrul](/forums/1069380/topics/1913257?page=1#13405093)**:* > To give an idea of how powerful I was, my gold cap was at 350k, I had never beat Octobadie I have 42 days played, of which roughly half has been spent more or less stuck at the wall that is zone 6. My gold cap is just shy of 200k in a several day long run, and my highest damage ever is in the e15 per second range. > I did very little scripting . > I did...scripting Monteblango has e20 health. The [math has been done](https://www.kongregate.com/forums/1069380-incremental-epic-hero/topics/1912148-suggestions-for-breaking-the-6-5-7-1-barrier?page=1#posts-13401292), and it would take on the order of 24+ hours of active reincarnation grinding to gain the sort of gold cap that progression players have. I see no other possible way to gain a factor of 10,000 times more damage without scripting. And this boss unlocks a progression mechanic. The game is essentially unplayable by anyone who doesn't script.

When I say I did very little scripting, the only significant script I wrote was in regards to farming golem cores. I did not script fast rebirths, and in fact, I never did one. My fastest rebirth was several hours, and that was at the beginning of the game. I received a womping 38 spirit for rebirth because I did so few rebirths. I think I did around 20, total, in 50 days, and hardly any in the last 30 days or so (about one a week). Achieving a gold cap of 350k was done by going to a very high level (over 2300 levels). This was done, in turn, by purchasing super rebirths and keeping my levels when I did rebirth. Also: slime dungeon, and NOT equiping any defensive gear unless it gave me other bonuses that I needed (like MP). This allowed me to quickly go through waves, wipe them out quickly, and find metal slimes as fast a possible. Metal slimes are important at high levels because they scale to your level...and become the only way to get good experience. Lowering my defense was beneficial to die earlier; you don't want to start going through screens slowly because they have a lot of hit points and you aren't dying. At the point I was at, I was making about 300k prestige points per day with an angel, by NOT rebirthing. Wizard was even more, because you could clear screens faster, which meant more metal slimes per hour. To be clear: I did very little scripting, and not even one fast rebirth. Other than golem cores, I had no real advantage over you. Yes, the golem cores were an advantage, and it would have taken many hours of constant manual farming to get to the same level of defense, but I only added about 1000% defense using potions, and I could have easily gone to 10,000% instead (which I would have done eventually if I had not killed him when I did). I had about 100k defense from the shield, so using 10 times as many potions and having 1/10th my defense would have come out exactly the same. So, if you have a 10k defense shield, you can match my defense by taking your potion defense bonus to 10k% (actually, you would be higher because there are other sources of defense). Oh, and I had taken the shield to 30k before I ever wrote the script; I simply decided that it was stupid to continue putting that much time into the task, but I didn't want to stop doing it as I was attempting to get to Octobadie, so I automated it. It is not unplayable without scripts. It is considerably slower, and you will likely need to spend about half of your epic coins on super rebirths (presuming you have all of the quest related epic purchases; get them first if you don't). The game still needs better balancing between people who script and who do not; I've suggested multiple fixes (all of which have been ignored so far), and the devs definitely need to improve that aspect more, but it's not "unplayable."

You must buy most of items in epic store. You can get epic coin by daily quest, but it took about 3-4 months to get half of items.

> *Originally posted by **[lusinh](/forums/1069380/topics/1913257?page=1#13405385)**:* > You must buy most of items in epic store. You can get epic coin by daily quest, but it took about 3-4 months to get half of items. What's your problem? The game hasn't existed 3-4 months. It will be 2 months old on the 14th of June. Once you have the quest-related purchases, you can make 1000 epic coins per day, often more, occassionally less (some quests can't or shouldn't be done). The only epic purchases I've bought are quests, alchemy, favorite area, queues, super-queues, and occassional super-rebirths. Most of those items aren't that expensive, except for multiple super-rebirths (which really do add up after buying four of five of them). I don't have any ambition purchases. I did buy the global skill slot bundle in the bonus tab, but I don't really think that having firestorm active was necessary to beat the new boss, so it's not something you need to buy if you don't think the devs deserve a few bucks for all the work they've put into the game.

reincarnation is a feature locked behind a script-wall.

> *Originally posted by **[azerazerazer](/forums/1069380/topics/1913257?page=1#13405718)**:* > reincarnation is a feature locked behind a script-wall. I believe so as well but devs are denying that. This is from their discord FAQs: *What is the stance the Dev's take on scripting/macros? We will not take any action against those who use these tools, but we do not actively support it. In time we hope to render most scripts/macros unnecessary as we add new features, new QoL enhancements, and more.* They made contest just for people who reached a part of the game you cannot already have advanced to by playing casually. **Guys, please keep me honest here**; I do not to want to be that frustrated person that is playing the game wrong and then complains. I also do not have the feeling the best content is locked behind a paywall, it is just the whole progression system is messed up and there hasn't been a nerf yet (like cutting Montblango stats in half).

> *Originally posted by **[azerazerazer](/forums/1069380/topics/1913257?page=1#13405718)**:* > reincarnation is a feature locked behind a script-wall. I will disagree. This game is a grind - just like every asian MMORPG, it's not an MMORPG but it's still a japanese game. There are players willing to spend hours and hours playing this game without scripts. I've played some games that players used to be doing the same actions for 16 hours everyday, because they had to grind their gear that was their idea of fun - I've stopped it because I saw, that grinding wasn't for me. > *Originally posted by **[Scherazade](/forums/1069380/topics/1913257?page=1#13405852)**:* > > They made contest just for people who reached a part of the game you cannot already have advanced to by playing casually. > **Guys, please keep me honest here**; I do not to want to be that frustrated person that is playing the game wrong and then complains. Yes, you're playing casually while this game is a grind-fest. You want instant gratification in a game that reward you for clearing the same area 2000 times or staying in an area for 12 hours. It's a little less grind because most actions you can do AFK, but rebirthing unfortunately is still a grind-fest that require a lot of your time - and people will cheat to get it fast or do something more productive. I'm not saying the new boss could not have some changes, but this game is basically: spend hours in a zone to upgrade equipments and progress.

I would agree that there is no paywall. It just takes longer if you don't pay for epic coins, but 1000 per day is pretty significant, and you should be able to average that if not better. I'll also agree that their is not script-wall. But, most players assumed they would be able to reincarnate, only to find a very tough boss that also required arcade boss killing skills and/or a great deal of luck. I'll also agree that there is also a great deal of grind...a lot more than I would like, and some of it requires either active play or scripting. I can actually understand scripting to automatically rebirth, because that is how the game is designed. This is a problem to me, especially if the devs continue to ignore suggestions to make that aspect better, simply because this is not what most players want (myself included), and because the difficulty level has obviously been scaled based on the most successful players...which can be overcome, but as I said in another post, there are 33 must-have heart upgrades (10 skills for each class and 3 purchases of spirit upgrade), which would take about 3 years to get at 1 month per reincarnation. Quite simply, they have made the game a VERY long term endeavour for those that don't use the rebirth exploit of killing the 1st challenge boss minions and rebirthing over and over again to quickly raise gold cap...and I do consider it an exploit because there is no way that they intended on such a specific action. Still, enough players have done it that they have driven the level of difficulty being implemented in new expansions. If the devs don't listen to the players' wishes, they'll lose a lot of players...which is too bad, because it is a good game, but requiring too much active grind (or scripting) and now, arcade boss killing skills, seems like going very far in the wrong direction to me, unless they want a much smaller player base... I think that the game can still be saved. There are suggestions to make it better...if they listen, great, if not, I expect more and more people to quit. It's that simple. In it's current form, playable, but definitely a grind, or requiring scripting and taking advantage of a very specific exploit.

Well most people here say that you need to rebirth (scripting) a lot to progress. I totaly dont agree, because you can advance in the game pretty well with long runs after you have get your gold cap to 7-8. Speaking the rebirth taking in consideration for spirit - it has a max of 1k. My reincarnation was for 15k spirit and out of that only 36 was rebirthing, so even if i had 1000 that wouldnt make it considerabely more. Most spirit points seems to come from materials and evo equipment, that is not something you do so actively or with scripting. The part of the game that anoys me most is the grind on challenge bosses and constant crafting/using the alchemy potions which to be effective need to be done manually because of their randomness. The reinc boss is a bit annoying but it is not that hard, I have seen a lot harder in many games (icnluding idle) and people dont complain about that. Considering speed of reincarnation, after you get enough spirit upgrades those reincarnations will become a lot faster - actually if it is too fast people will again say it is made for scripters. Having a feature that is planned to take good ammount of time to max is not that bad idea at least for me. Noone is saying you need to get max of reincarnation imediately, specially if they do not plan to make 3rd prestige level at all in this game. Main problem about reincarnation i would say is the slime bank reset. The progress here cannot be speeded for now (except if there is something in the 2nd or 3rd spirit upgrade unlock).

Edwin, my own experience proves that you can advance "pretty well" in long runs. Still, there is a great deal of disparity. Note that I did some scripting for golem cores, but that could have been replaced with about 12 hours of active play or by using 3 times as many defense potions. I did no fast rebirths, so my own experience could be considered a case study of what is acheivable for non-scripters. First of all, I made up for not using fast rebirths by keeping my level going up. If you target metal slimes (in the manner explained in one of my posts above), you get more and more prestige from leveling. The increase in prestige per level slightly outpaces the increase in time between leveling. After 50 days of playing, I had it up to 300k prestige per day, and if I had refined the process sooner, I could have achieved that sooner...maybe only 40 days of playing. To put that into perspective, though, at least one scripted rebirther was claiming 20k prestige in a 3 minute run. That's 400k prestige PER HOUR (32 times faster), and that wasn't even coming from a top scripter...no idea what they were pulling. My method also required spending about half of my epic coin income on super rebirths; scripters don't need to buy a single super rebirth. Seems like quite a lot of difference to me. To further put the disparity of power into perspective, I expected to beat Octobadie in a week, when I reincarnated from wizard to warrior again. That's 57 days of play; refined, let's say I could have done it in 6 weeks. Scripters were beating Octobadie into the hundreds of levels. To put THAT into perspective, I had slime king at around level 200, and bananoon at around level 30. I'll grant you, I was able to kill the reincarnation boss, but it wasn't easy. Let's say that I could do it in a month, and with increasing speeds from spirit upgrades and new skills, I can reduce the average to a few weeks and get the 33 critical heart upgrades in two years. Still, I clearly was far ahead of a most people not using fast rebirth scripts, so we'll say it takes 2 to 3 years without scripting, as the game currently stands. What scripting will translate into is no need to spend epic coins on super rebirths, and much, much faster reincarnation, which means getting those 33 critical heart upgrades much faster (say, 3 to 6 months instead of 2 to 3 years), and then being able to easily march through area 7 again, and of course drive development to make area 8 and other future development scale to that level of power. Now, removing the rebirth exploit, that would put scripters and non-scripters both on much more even footing. I've suggested a reducing rebirth penalty that disappears after about 3 hours (I don't think I've ever rebirthed in under 3 hours...), which has so far been ignored...but let's presume that the rebirth exploit is left in, and that game continues to be paced based on the most advanced players (ALL of which are scripters). Given all of that, do you honestly believe that people (most of which have still not succeeded in killing the reincarnation boss) should not be frustrated by the current state of the game or concluding that you "need" rebirth scripting to play it? I might disagree that you "need" it right now, but if area 8 is implemented based on the power of fully reincarnated scripters, how long do you think it will take a non-scripter to get through that game material? Keep in mind that players had HUNDREDS of levels of Octobadie WITHOUT any benefit from reincarnation. The rebirth exploit "needs" to be removed or this game will, eventually, "need" scripting rebirths. I don't see anything in your post that disproves this conclusion. Also, even though players say that they don't care if other players far outpace them and they are simply playing the game at their own pace, that's largely BS. If you are playing a game and others are far outpacing you, it's natural and completely understandable to become disinterested in the game...especially when new features are being added based on the progress of those other players, and players at your level are largely being ignored or being required to add weeks of grind or many hours of manual play just to access the most basic new material.

The main problem with scripters is that they reach "end game" faster which makes the devs pump out updates instead of focusing on what most players have issues with, when thinking back to my own starting point it didnt take many days to notice that you gain more pp if you did shorter runs than if you made one long run cause you saw you got most points from levels so it was all about pumping up that exp gain for faster levels and then i heard about challenge 1 abuse using tinctures and eventually it was all about killing the summons and not even killing the boss...i never scripted and i pulled out like 20k in below 3 min reaching lvl 150 on a 136 lvl slime king challenge, i never did beat octobaddie i gave up since it would needed way to many rebirths for gold cap to lvl up my charge swing enough. would have been nice seeing you Bahrul do a fast rebirth killing challenge summons on lvl 200 to see what lvl and points you would have gotten though. I reincarnated with like 10k spirit essence after 45 days playtime~ this reincarnation been going on now for 3 days and im at area 5-3 only "actively playing" in the afternoons. THE ONLY reason i managed to kill the reincarnation boss was cuz there was a hint on discord, suddenly adding a mechanic which isnt anyhere in the game without a hint or anything was kind of a bad choice Slime bank reset doesnt seem to mather that much, to early to say for me atleast , i feel like my second reincarnation will take around a week, tops 2 in the progress im going atm with barely active play. Anyway i hated reincarnation when i did it, but its growing on me, biggest problem was the boss but once you figured out what kills you and getting the hint from discord.... it went smooth. also problem was the leaked skills that apparantly doesnt exist yet so buying skill first is somewhat useless.... rip heart stone....

> Reincarnation pretty much wipes out everything Are epic coins and purchases in epic store get reset too?

> *Originally posted by **[DayElven](/forums/1069380/topics/1913257?page=1#13405970)**:* > > Reincarnation pretty much wipes out everything > Are epic coins and purchases in epic store get reset too? This is in the patch notes: Reincarnation will reset EVERYTHING except these: Monster Captures Dark Ritual Gems Mission Milestone Epic Store Stuffs

Let me join this discussion as a casual player who doesn't do any scripting at all. I do long runs because I absolutely don't like playing games where I don't do anything but grinding after some time. I've played since the very beginning, but not every day. My gold cap is at 145k, I have only captured about 80 monsters. Moreover, I guess I'm still far far away from doing my first reincarnation. Still, I enjoy the game and that's the point. I don't need to be as fast as someone who scripts. Their motivation of playing this game is completely different - and I'm not judging them, it's neither better nor worse than my own. They have fun pushing the game mechanics to their absolute limit and being the best in it. I just want to have a good time doing some progress now and then by some rebirths and idle farming. I might be way slower than many other people, but that's the way I like. What I hope is that the devs don't forget QoL changes for slowly progressing players. I don't mind having to wait a lot of time to unlock new major content as long as I can still have any progress - albeit slower - while playing casually. Whenever games would force me to grind mindlessly (and scripted) for days to advance in any way, that's the point where I stop playing (so I did with games like Realm Grinder).

> *Originally posted by **[Wooticus](/forums/1069380/topics/1913257?page=1#13406342)**:* > >Whenever games would force me to grind mindlessly (and scripted) for days to advance in any way, that's the point where I stop playing (so I did with games like Realm Grinder). This is what the people are discussing about. You will reach that point soon and you will realize how much you still have to mindlessly grind to get to the point to reincarnate. I reached this wall and right now I am doing nothing else but my daylies for the eqic coins, read about new patchnotes and then leave. I hoped that reincarnation would help to overcome the midgame progression wall, but as it is now, the reincarnation update was a big letdown.

> *Originally posted by **[pendulu](/forums/1069380/topics/1913257?page=1#13406419)**:* > > I reached this wall and right now I am doing nothing else but my daylies for the eqic coins, read about new patchnotes and then leave. I hoped that reincarnation would help to overcome the midgame progression wall, but as it is now, the reincarnation update was a big letdown. > > I'm in the same boat.

> *Originally posted by **[pendulu](/forums/1069380/topics/1913257?page=1#13406419)**:* > > *Originally posted by **[Wooticus](/forums/1069380/topics/1913257?page=1#13406342)**:* > > > >Whenever games would force me to grind mindlessly (and scripted) for days to advance in any way, that's the point where I stop playing (so I did with games like Realm Grinder). > > > This is what the people are discussing about. It's one of the problems, but with the reincarnation people are mad cause they think they need the skill of hell bullet game to reincarnate now - while dodging was already here since the Golem, I've heard Octobadie need a lot of dodging too. But there are items in this game that help you with defense - Golem Shield will cut the damage by 80%, it's just a big grind to get it to +11. Yes, the game is grind if you want to progress fast. And if you're a casual player you can choose playing at your own pace and be happy or quit.

> *Originally posted by **[Doguinho](/forums/1069380/topics/1913257?page=1#13406510)**:* > > *Originally posted by **[pendulu](/forums/1069380/topics/1913257?page=1#13406419)**:* > > > *Originally posted by **[Wooticus](/forums/1069380/topics/1913257?page=1#13406342)**:* > > > > > >Whenever games would force me to grind mindlessly (and scripted) for days to advance in any way, that's the point where I stop playing (so I did with games like Realm Grinder). > > > > > > This is what the people are discussing about. > > It's one of the problems, but with the reincarnation people are mad cause they think they need the skill of hell bullet game to reincarnate now - while dodging was already here since the Golem, I've heard Octobadie need a lot of dodging too. But there are items in this game that help you with defense - Golem Shield will cut the damage by 80%, it's just a big grind to get it to +11. > > Yes, the game is grind if you want to progress fast. And if you're a casual player you can choose playing at your own pace and be happy or quit. > > I feel like another big problem with why people are mad is the lack of communication (at least in the form of kong update logs and their website's new updates) on what was going to be needed to reincarnate. Personally since I knew equipment was going to reset I essentially stopped playing because there wasn't an indication you'd need to beat a boss. Rebirth unlocks from simply beating 1-5 so it was fairly logical to assume it'd be an area unlock not a challenge boss. I'd wager I wasn't the only one who would have benefited from a more clear elaboration on what you'll need for the most hyped up update to the game yet. That said, I don't think the boss is the worst thing, like you point out golem shield does a lot. Get to the point you can tank all but the yellow bar on angel or wizard and it's a breeze. Odds are if you are struggling to reincarnate, it'll probably be a huge bonus for you when you do, despite the more advanced players seeing it as tiny boosts. Stick with it guys, I believe in you all!

Doguinho: My issue with Monte compared to golem is simple. If I do the golem dance, I can go a couple of levels further than compared to just auto attacking him. For Monte you need golem shield 11+ or be a pro at bullet hell stuff. But even with high golem shield, you still have to actively avoid the balls from the yellow attack + either have very high atk or swap in charge fast enough + eat/craft a lot of atk pills. With the slow progression after reaching area 6, just grinding enough atk is a long road to go, for casuals prolly way too long.

From what I experienced after far too many tries is that you do not need defense to stagger Montblango. As stupid as a skill check in such a game might be I am far more concerned by the 5e20 HP wall. How do you manage to damaged that guy once he is staggered? I fill his red bar with fire but even after that he takes no damage. Do you equip you wizard with Warrior skills and boost ATK?

> *Originally posted by **[Oeffinger](/forums/1069380/topics/1913257?page=1#13406586)**:* > Doguinho: My issue with Monte compared to golem is simple. If I do the golem dance, I can go a couple of levels further than compared to just auto attacking him. For Monte you need golem shield 11+ or be a pro at bullet hell stuff. But even with high golem shield, you still have to actively avoid the balls from the yellow attack + either have very high atk or swap in charge fast enough + eat/craft a lot of atk pills. With the slow progression after reaching area 6, just grinding enough atk is a long road to go, for casuals prolly way too long. > I could agree that Monte HP could be lower, either by default or the more missions you do less HP the monte will have. But the game didn't change much, the game didn't change much - it's not a new game cause you now have to dodge attacks, this kind of feature was already implemented on the game but it was easier to dodge, right now people already posted on discord how to avoid all attack patterns. But people are just mad they couldn't beat it because they assume it's a hell bullet game and assume they have to be able to beat it since they already unlocked it - they don't ask others for the strategy used or suggest anything useful for change -, while the game has already some old items implemented that will help not getting killed. Investing a lot of defense is the meta for monte right now.

> *Originally posted by **[Scherazade](/forums/1069380/topics/1913257?page=1#13406651)**:* > From what I experienced after far too many tries is that you do not need defense to stagger Montblango. As stupid as a skill check in such a game might be I am far more concerned by the 5e20 HP wall. How do you manage to damaged that guy once he is staggered? I fill his red bar with fire but even after that he takes no damage. Do you equip you wizard with Warrior skills and boost ATK? Yes, you equip wizard with charge blade, boost attack. Also, if you sit right on top of him, all of your slime balls will hit...just be sure to move if you see a yellow bar about to fill up! To do that, you will of course need to be able to survive his other attacks...defense potions, golem shield, and healing potions at the ready are all helpful.

I've kinda been ready to stop playing this game for awhile, and was hoping the update would help the wall that comes when you reach area 6 but it feels pretty awful to have reincarnation locked behind such an annoying boss. Best of luck to the rest of you, but I am really regretting spending the few kreds I did on this game.