Welcome beginners, welcome everyone. I think you already figured out what are starter packs in this game. Starter packs cost 50 kreds and when you purchase them, you recruit a new crusader that has full rare equipment, expect one piece of its that is golden epic. The packs include the most common crusaders like Milgrid, jialong, langdey, Mindy, president billy and baenarall. But when we search << information >> about some of these crusaders, we learn that they can be recruited very late of the beginning, that means: Langdey is tier 4 (requires over 100k idols at least to recruit him). Jialong is tier 5 (not even 100k idols to manage get it s recruit area, over 1m idols). Beside these 2 late game crusaders that there s no reason to join in < starter > packs, they offer 3 tier 2 crusaders(1500 idols to recruit at least) and one tier 1, including milgrid, mindy, baenarall (tier 2), and the tier 1 crusader president that can be recruited anytime in it s event. The problem is, a starter pack should include good crusaders (yes they do), affordable at any time after first reset at least without being a high tier. The recent update to starter packs put jialong and langdey in, althrough they are late game crusaders, that has as result of making these packs not be starter packs. A beginner should say idols are easily grindable. Yes and no. Idols take some time in the beginning, but by the time you can insta kill till the area you afford the < reset the world > at least, then they are grindable but to reach a high number of idols, takes a lot of time, maybe some months or even more. So, please vote below what is true and what is false to have in starter packs.

I vote for your post making no sense at all. All saders in stater packs are there for a good reason. And that reason is giving better start, duh :) (oh sure, you can get them **anytime in their events, **how neat, haha...) Also, i own Jiao and Langley with 2k idols.

Nothing like months, i've hit 25k in 15 days on my second account. Granted i picked a good start time due to this event, but any event fp massivly boosts idol gains for new players. Draco as my dps is getting near to 5k levels already, so Jiao is totally viable in a few days with active play in the right circumstances. A couple of weeks at the outside if you're waiting between events. Edit; I'll add that no one is going to start this game and instantly spend money on all the starter packs without trying it first, unless they have far more money than sense. If after a couple of weeks they are in for the long haul thats the perfect time to pick up a starter pack or 2 and support the Devs.

> *Originally posted by **[czaka](/forums/12051/topics/1912168?page=1#13400013)**:* > I vote for your post making no sense at all. > All saders in stater packs are there for a good reason. And that reason is giving better start, duh :) > (oh sure, you can get them **anytime in their events, **how neat, haha...) > > Also, i own Jiao and Langley with 2k idols. > *Originally posted by **[czaka](/forums/12051/topics/1912168?page=1#13400013)**:* > I vote for your post making no sense at all. > All saders in stater packs are there for a good reason. And that reason is giving better start, duh :) > (oh sure, you can get them **anytime in their events, **how neat, haha...) > > Also, i own Jiao and Langley with 2k idols. And I make no sense when somebody else makes comments, thank you Also, previous posts claim that you have played at least 2 years, while posting your advanced formations? Your comment is fake news > *Originally posted by **[astartespete](/forums/12051/topics/1912168?page=1#13400028)**:* > Nothing like months, i've hit 25k in 15 days on my second account. Granted i picked a good start time due to this event, but any event fp massivly boosts idol gains for new players. > Draco as my dps is getting near to 5k levels already, so Jiao is totally viable in a few days with active play in the right circumstances. A couple of weeks at the outside if you're waiting between events. > Edit: This topic asks for balance, not for < what s is best to purchase and when >. But sure

> *Originally posted by **[Cosmic_Monolith](/forums/12051/topics/1912168?page=1#13400032)**:* > > *Originally posted by **[czaka](/forums/12051/topics/1912168?page=1#13400013)**:* > > I vote for your post making no sense at all. > > All saders in stater packs are there for a good reason. And that reason is giving better start, duh :) > > (oh sure, you can get them **anytime in their events, **how neat, haha...) > > > > Also, i own Jiao and Langley with 2k idols. > > > > *Originally posted by **[czaka](/forums/12051/topics/1912168?page=1#13400013)**:* > > I vote for your post making no sense at all. > > All saders in stater packs are there for a good reason. And that reason is giving better start, duh :) > > (oh sure, you can get them **anytime in their events, **how neat, haha...) > > > > Also, i own Jiao and Langley with 2k idols. > > And I make no sense when somebody else makes comments, thank you > > Also, previous posts claim that you have played at least 2 years, while posting your advanced formations? Your comment is fake news > > > *Originally posted by **[astartespete](/forums/12051/topics/1912168?page=1#13400028)**:* > > Nothing like months, i've hit 25k in 15 days on my second account. Granted i picked a good start time due to this event, but any event fp massivly boosts idol gains for new players. > > Draco as my dps is getting near to 5k levels already, so Jiao is totally viable in a few days with active play in the right circumstances. A couple of weeks at the outside if you're waiting between events. > > > > Your comment is out of topic No, it's totally on topic, you're literally calling into question the validity and content of the starter packs and I've illustrated to you why they work as intended. You don't have to agree, but the fact is they are perfectly useable as an early boost to get into the middle game quicker and therefore working as intended.

> *Originally posted by **[Cosmic_Monolith](/forums/12051/topics/1912168?page=1#13399980)**:* > Welcome beginners, welcome everyone. I think you already figured out what are starter packs in this game. > > Starter packs cost 50 kreds and when you purchase them, you recruit a new crusader that has full rare equipment, expect one piece of its that is golden epic. > > The packs include the most common crusaders like Milgrid, jialong, langdey, Mindy, president billy and baenarall. But when we search << information >> about some of these crusaders, we learn that they can be recruited very late of the beginning, that means: Langdey is tier 4 (requires over 100k idols at least to recruit him). Jialong is tier 5 (not even 100k idols to manage get it s recruit area, over 1m idols). Beside these 2 late game crusaders that there s no reason to join in < starter > packs, they offer 3 tier 2 crusaders(1500 idols to recruit at least) and one tier 1, including milgrid, mindy, baenarall (tier 2), and the tier 1 crusader president that can be recruited anytime in it s event. > > The problem is, a starter pack should include good crusaders (yes they do), affordable at any time after first reset at least without being a high tier. The recent update to starter packs put jialong and langdey in, althrough they are late game crusaders, that has as result of making these packs not be starter packs. > > A beginner should say idols are easily grindable. Yes and no. Idols take some time in the beginning, but by the time you can insta kill till the area you afford the < reset the world > at least, then they are grindable but to reach a high number of idols, takes a lot of time, maybe some months or even more. > > So, please vote below what is true and what is false to have in starter packs. So it sounds like you're arguing what the definition of a "STARTER pack" _should_ be. If CNE called them something else would it matter?

> *Originally posted by **[czaka](/forums/12051/topics/1912168?page=1#13400281)**:* > > *Originally posted by **[Cosmic_Monolith](/forums/12051/topics/1912168?page=1#13400032)**:* > >And I make no sense when somebody else makes comments, thank you > > >Also, previous posts claim that you have played at least 2 years, while posting your advanced formations? Your comment is fake news > > 3 and a half. > you sound like a noob though. > > and sure, packs with speeders are more valuable, still Jiao and even Langley can be useful. > > now, i belive that goldens from packs never appear in challenge shop, thus seeing more saders in these packs **doesn't** make me happy, to be honest... > (but maybe i'm wrong?) You're right. The only time that changes is if the starter pack is taken out, which happened with Brogon I think and maybe one more.

Not sure, if I 100% understand what you are getting at. If starter packs would give you what you can get at the beginning, what would be the point of them? What some of the starter packs do offer are key crusaders, that you otherwise might have to wait quite some time for to get. So imo they are pretty decent.

yeah, i think of them more as a starter pack for starting to use that crusader, rather than a pack for people just starting out in the game

> *Originally posted by **[FateIsEscaped](/forums/12051/topics/1912168?page=1#13400290)**:* > > *Originally posted by **[Cosmic_Monolith](/forums/12051/topics/1912168?page=1#13399980)**:* > > Welcome beginners, welcome everyone. I think you already figured out what are starter packs in this game. > > > > Starter packs cost 50 kreds and when you purchase them, you recruit a new crusader that has full rare equipment, expect one piece of its that is golden epic. > > > > The packs include the most common crusaders like Milgrid, jialong, langdey, Mindy, president billy and baenarall. But when we search << information >> about some of these crusaders, we learn that they can be recruited very late of the beginning, that means: Langdey is tier 4 (requires over 100k idols at least to recruit him). Jialong is tier 5 (not even 100k idols to manage get it s recruit area, over 1m idols). Beside these 2 late game crusaders that there s no reason to join in < starter > packs, they offer 3 tier 2 crusaders(1500 idols to recruit at least) and one tier 1, including milgrid, mindy, baenarall (tier 2), and the tier 1 crusader president that can be recruited anytime in it s event. > > > > The problem is, a starter pack should include good crusaders (yes they do), affordable at any time after first reset at least without being a high tier. The recent update to starter packs put jialong and langdey in, althrough they are late game crusaders, that has as result of making these packs not be starter packs. > > > > A beginner should say idols are easily grindable. Yes and no. Idols take some time in the beginning, but by the time you can insta kill till the area you afford the < reset the world > at least, then they are grindable but to reach a high number of idols, takes a lot of time, maybe some months or even more. > > > > So, please vote below what is true and what is false to have in starter packs. > > So it sounds like you're arguing what the definition of a "STARTER pack" _should_ be. > > If CNE called them something else would it matter? If starter packs get divided, and become available in different categories like < starter pack > and < ( anything ) packs >, it would had been better cuz a new player may want to spend his money to jialong e.g but later realize that this pack is useless in the beginning. Putting a pack in the game that refers to late game crusaders would tell more truth with the result avoiding most mistakes. > *Originally posted by **[SchlippSchlapp](/forums/12051/topics/1912168?page=1#13400307)**:* > Not sure, if I 100% understand what you are getting at. > > If starter packs would give you what you can get at the beginning, what would be the point of them? > > What some of the starter packs do offer are key crusaders, that you otherwise might have to wait quite some time for to get. > > So imo they are pretty decent. Yep you right, one of the advantages starter packs got are: they instantly give you gear in your new crusader rather than waiting some months, while also being decent And yes, the point of starter packs is not such important, unless you want it's GE gear, through there s a way to get them, by waiting much time in challenge shop

Meh, there's no time limit on buying "Starter Packs," so as long as it's clear to newbies that there is zero reason to buy a particular starter pack before you have a specific crusader, I'm fine with packs being offered for T4+ crusaders. Honestly, the trajectory for a beginner is pretty dynamic anyway. I think I started in the middle of T2 events, and I was clearing all T2 objectives before T3s were released. From chat, it seems at least some new players are able to clear T3-T4 events within a few months of fairly committed play. Granted, someone who has been resetting once or twice a day for a few months might not be a "beginner" to some folks, but I think that's a still a reasonable time frame to be offering people some sort of specialized pack as an appropriate first purchase that would give them a meaningful boost. Personally, I'm a bit more conservative about buying stuff in new games. If i had started in the spring and picked up Billy a month or so into playing, it probably would be too soon for me to commit to sink money into this game. Since starter packs came fairly late, by the time I decided that I liked this game--and that it was going to be around for a while--they weren't at all useful to me when they were offered. But that's the nice thing about the variety of starter packs: They cover a fairly wide range of milestones, meaning that there will be something relevant to a wider range of new players, whether they're buying the Jim starter pack within an hour of trying the game or waiting a year or more before realizing that they want to support the game.

> *Originally posted by **[Netreker0](/forums/12051/topics/1912168?page=1#13402051)**:* > Meh, there's no time limit on buying "Starter Packs," so as long as it's clear to newbies that there is zero reason to buy a particular starter pack before you have a specific crusader, I'm fine with packs being offered for T4+ crusaders. Honestly, the trajectory for a beginner is pretty dynamic anyway. I think I started in the middle of T2 events, and I was clearing all T2 objectives before T3s were released. From chat, it seems at least some new players are able to clear T3-T4 events within a few months of fairly committed play. > > Granted, someone who has been resetting once or twice a day for a few months might not be a "beginner" to some folks, but I think that's a still a reasonable time frame to be offering people some sort of specialized pack as an appropriate first purchase that would give them a meaningful boost. > > Personally, I'm a bit more conservative about buying stuff in new games. If i had started in the spring and picked up Billy a month or so into playing, it probably would be too soon for me to commit to sink money into this game. Since starter packs came fairly late, by the time I decided that I liked this game--and that it was going to be around for a while--they weren't at all useful to me when they were offered. But that's the nice thing about the variety of starter packs: They cover a fairly wide range of milestones, meaning that there will be something relevant to a wider range of new players, whether they're buying the Jim starter pack within an hour of trying the game or waiting a year or more before realizing that they want to support the game. Nowadays yes I remember I was previously yielding 130 idols in area 500 with milgrid with 3k idols. Now I yield 650 idols in area 400 By the one side, this idol buff on events is very helpful to beginners but what if the beginner start the game without event? He will have a hard time By the other side, late game players yield 3x or more idols than normally on events. So, the conclusion is: Developers should switch the idol awards to be almost the same in any campaign, otherwise there will be unbalance. They also should divide starter packs to different categories to tell more truth and lastly, make weekend buffs include more low tier crusaders because the recent weekend buffs only support **Crusaders used in late game formations**.

If you start without an event its literally 1-2 weeks at the very outside till one becomes available, so hardly the end of the world. If you're going to start throwing numbers in you also need to back it up. Do you have any empirical proof of this 3x haul, as anyone who caps will tell you the event bonus may as well not exist. Regarding your conclusions, all campain free plays award the same idols already, but not all forms allow you to push as far due to the number of slots. You therefore need to balance what you run and when, thats part of the strategy and removing the need to do this removes skill from the game, which woud be a mistake. Dividing the starter packs fixes an issue that doesn't exist as far as I'm concerned. As for the weekend buffs almost all of them do not buff the best/meta crusaders anyway, but having at least 1 base 20 crusader would be a good compromise.

> *Originally posted by **[Netreker0](/forums/12051/topics/1912168?page=1#13402051)**:* > Meh, there's no time limit on buying "Starter Packs," so as long as it's clear to newbies that there is zero reason to buy a particular starter pack before you have a specific crusader, I'm fine with packs being offered for T4+ crusaders. [...] Uhm... The way it reads you will get the crusader upon purchase.

> *Originally posted by **[SchlippSchlapp](/forums/12051/topics/1912168?page=1#13402241)**:* > > *Originally posted by **[Netreker0](/forums/12051/topics/1912168?page=1#13402051)**:* > > Meh, there's no time limit on buying "Starter Packs," so as long as it's clear to newbies that there is zero reason to buy a particular starter pack before you have a specific crusader, I'm fine with packs being offered for T4+ crusaders. [...] > > Uhm... The way it reads you will get the crusader upon purchase. Uhm, in that case, most of my points are even more relevant. If you're a completely new player, buying pretty much any one of those packs will be helpful in different ways, but not in a game-breaking way. I.e., buying Jialong gives you early access to solid DPS and lets you start +EPing him months, if not years, before you would normally, which is a very nice head start. But without a ton of idols/talents, or the great mid-top tier support crusaders who synergize well with him, you won't be using him anywhere near his full potentially--and you certainly wouldn't be "buying" your way ahead of players who have been around for years. To me, that sounds like the sweet spot for a good starter pack--a tangible benefit that speeds up the early grind, but not something powerful that it makes the game pay to win to the extent that it alienates free players. My one concern is specific only to Jialong at this point: For a good chunk of the early game, you really don't earn enough gold to buy him and enough of his upgrades, so even if you buy his pack, it really wouldn't be immediately helpful. The fact that the crusader is included also doesn't really change much with respect to the starter packs remaining relevant for a longer period of time--or that this is a good thing. It basically sets up a nice sliding scale of benefit vs. sunk-cost. The more you play, the less tangible the starter packs become--both because buying early means you reap the benefits for longer, and because as you unlock a crusader and upgrade his gear the normal way, each starter pack becomes less helpful, to the point that eventually you're really just buying a golden epic. This is a pressure that generally decreases your incentive to buy starter packs over time. On the other hand, the more you play, the more invested you are in this game. If you've been around for a few weeks, you're more likely to want to support CNE and this community than a player on day one. If you've played a while, interacted with the devs, and engaged with other players, you're more likely to trust that this game won't just fold in a few months. And assuming the game and its community are both managed well (which imho CNE does for the most part), generally the longer folks have played, the more they're willing to invest in the game and the more they trust that it'll be around for the foreseeable future. These factors generally increase your willingness to pay money into a game over time. So this ends up being a pretty workable starter pack system, imho. The toys get less shiny over time, but your willingness to buy guys up. If these curves ever meet, then you buy something, support this game, and get some tangible benefit out of it. Awesome. If it never happens--if you never quite feel like buying something, until one day you realize you already have everything in those packs, and even got all the GEs from the challenge shop--then that's okay, too. CNE never really tries to make people feel bad for playing for free, and you're not really locked out of any content that the guys who bought starter packs have access to. The emphasis on speedsters is a particularly nice choice because it's smart to target a specific group of players. Early resets were short enough that it didn't really feel like a grind, especially if you would play semi-afk a lot of the time. This is just a hunch, but I suspect more casual/afk newbies are probably a bit less likely to buy things early on anyway. However, if you really get into the game from the beginning, and do a ton of active play/multiple resets each day, buying Billy/Bae and maybe Mindy will not only make your idols per minute and idols per day increase drastically, it'll also make the early grind feel much less grindy.

well new player doesn't benefit much from jialong since they don't have goldfind to support him.

You benefit a lot from having such a high slot early game. Saw someone with 11days played and 150k+ idols because of Jiao. Which I think is pretty fast farming :)

> *Originally posted by **[Vingummi](/forums/12051/topics/1912168?page=1#13403394)**:* > You benefit a lot from having such a high slot early game. Saw someone with 11days played and 150k+ idols because of Jiao. Which I think is pretty fast farming :) And later you find out that your goal is: Start objective, complete that one, instakilling everything, start a new objective...... and so on