Hello, I have been wondering, since legendary summoning equips do this : - summon an uncommon unit every 3 turns (spidereggs) - summon a rare unit every 5 turns (mushroom) - summon a rare units every 6 turns (treant root) Why is there now a new legendary equipment, cloning mirror, that summons legendary units every 7 turns? How does +1 turn cd justifies a jump from rare to Legendary units? Of course, not everybody has full legendary decks, but that's not relevant since a lot of mid/high end decks has enough legendary cards for this case to happen. Here is my suggestion for a nerf : "copy one epic unit on your battlefield every 7 turns". This way, the jump from rares every 5/6 turns to epic every 7 turns finally makes sense, and it can give strategic decisions about building (or not) a full Legendary deck, plus give a fighting chance for poorer people unable to have these full legendary decks and only capable of making epic decks. Cheers!

Very true and sadly it used to be even better. Getting units cloned, which most often happens the same turn they come out is a huge advantage as well. Getting multiple units out at same time which can be even 4-5 with extreme cloners is massive advantage as the units cant be damaged before they enter.

how is this relevant when theres uncommon spell with 7CD that do the same? Sure its card not equip so will only clone once, but its uncommon so very easy to get and highly spamable. Besides what will your suggestion do when there will be no epic card in play? And honestly id rather fight 2x mirror than treant. Advantage of mirror is that cards always comes in pair = easier to counter (confuse). Lonely treaspeaker is much harder to kill at the start of the battle especialy under Luther and more often than not gives oponent time to build behind it. And also theres genocide...

Genocide isn't widely part of the meta just yet, since it has a very high gem cost to obtain (+ luck). Whether there is an unco spell that do the same isn't relevant, since the result remains the same for the cloning mirror : every 7th turn, you get another L unit into play. Now, if the cloning spell is also unbalanced, then it needs some changing too, but I will leave that discussion to another thread and players, as the equip and the spell could be tweaked and changed in different ways. About my suggestion, if you have a full deck of Legendary cards, just don't use the cloning mirror, as it would be a specific equip for specific decks. Not shocking for a L equip, since there are already other L equip that are specific to certain decks. The issue I have with confuse deck (staff of suggestion + beriths) is that it's a hit or miss strategy : if the opponent deck is a cloning one (or an imp one for that matters), that's great, he will get rekt. But if it's not, you're starting at a big disadvantage, and most often than not, lose the game. Having just one particular item that forces players to build this hit or miss kind of deck is quite unfair in my opinion, since this item is extremely rare. Moreover, the confuse strategy is moot if you make a legendary dragon / rocket launcher mek / mage / armored / shield cloning deck. A simple equip causing this much issue with deckbuilding strategy shouldn't exist, in my humble opinion.

Why is that my message with all my arguments has been removed? Can I have any information on that? It didn't contain any insult or anything illegal to the game. Is it a bad a joke?

Sorry about that! Our spam filter got a little overzealous. :-S (In general, if your post is filtered the instant you make it that means the system did it rather than a human moderator.) Hopefully having the post unhidden will teach it not to bother you!

Ok, I understand now, thank you very much for clarifying this issue! I will know for next time. Cheers mate

Personal opinion: Mirror is fine the way it is. Limiting players to epic cards when using a LEGENDARY EQU (note that these aren't that easy to obtain) isn't a good idea.

Any news about this issue, Sir Valimont?

There is no issue here. If something is easily beaten and countered, it can't be an issue, imo. If people find Mirror Malik too hard to beat, they'll run Genocide, Counterspell, Berith, Staff of Sugg, Unsummon and win like 95% of fights vs Mirror Maliks. The fact people haven't gone out of their way to counter it much means that people aren't bothered enough to deal with it. Also note it's not about rarity. If there was a common that was a 100/10000 then it doesn't matter that it's a common, it'll butcher every legendary you put against it forever (apart from owa >.>) The important thing is the power of the unit. Summoning legendary Sevals every 5 turns is way worse than summoning epic Dragon Meks every 5 turns. That's important to note. Treespeaker's a really huge creature witth a ton of power behind it. Is it really that much worse than a legendary? It's worse, sure, but not by too much. It's also tankier than a lot of them, which is a big bonus, and it doesn't need to be built around.

Thank you for this thread. :) My thoughts right now on Legendary summoning equipment is that they are good and should remain in the game, but that it is possible we could slightly rebalance them in terms of how often they trigger. Right now Treant Root and Magic Mirror may be a little faster than they need to be, and may make them OP compared to the others. Would adding +1 turn to each, so that Treant Root fires 1/7 and Magic Mirror 1/8, help the balance? Also as a related point I think we will make some adjustments to how equipment is made accessible / distributed in the game so that the fact of some L equips being very strong doesn't force top-end players into a purely RNG-chase situation, where some players spend many thousands of gems just to have bad luck and none of the equips necessary to compete.

Is Treant Root considered too fast as a Legend? I don't think so but in fairness i do use one in most of my decks; I only have 3 L equips.

> *Originally posted by **[oOAlexisOo](/forums/32949/topics/738090?page=1#11229450)**:* > There is no issue here. If something is easily beaten and countered, it can't be an issue, imo. If people find Mirror Malik too hard to beat, they'll run Genocide, Counterspell, Berith, Staff of Sugg, Unsummon and win like 95% of fights vs Mirror Maliks. The fact people haven't gone out of their way to counter it much means that people aren't bothered enough to deal with it. > > Also note it's not about rarity. If there was a common that was a 100/10000 then it doesn't matter that it's a common, it'll butcher every legendary you put against it forever (apart from owa >.>) The important thing is the power of the unit. Summoning legendary Sevals every 5 turns is way worse than summoning epic Dragon Meks every 5 turns. That's important to note. Treespeaker's a really huge creature witth a ton of power behind it. Is it really that much worse than a legendary? It's worse, sure, but not by too much. It's also tankier than a lot of them, which is a big bonus, and it doesn't need to be built around. Like I said, you can't counter a deck if you don't know in advance that you will fight it, unless you spend potions of visions. Actually, it is about rarity. Cloning mirror is a tailor made equipment for heavy epic/legendary decks, in which you will never put a seval. In that regards, getting a treant is worse than getting an L dragon or an L champion. > *Originally posted by **[Sir_Valimont](/forums/32949/topics/738090?page=1#11230154)**:* > Thank you for this thread. :) > > My thoughts right now on Legendary summoning equipment is that they are good and should remain in the game, but that it is possible we could slightly rebalance them in terms of how often they trigger. Right now Treant Root and Magic Mirror may be a little faster than they need to be, and may make them OP compared to the others. Would adding +1 turn to each, so that Treant Root fires 1/7 and Magic Mirror 1/8, help the balance? > > Also as a related point I think we will make some adjustments to how equipment is made accessible / distributed in the game so that the fact of some L equips being very strong doesn't force top-end players into a purely RNG-chase situation, where some players spend many thousands of gems just to have bad luck and none of the equips necessary to compete. Cloning mirror should definitely get +1 cd, at the very least. About treant root, I don't know if it needs a nerf or not, but if you also give a +1 cd to it, it would still be worse compared to cloning mirror. Ask yourself : if all the people got all the equipments x2 in the game, which ones would they pick ? Easy guess, a lot of them would pick 2x cloning mirror. If that doesn't tell you there is a balance issue with this item, I don't know what does.

Mirror is ok in most situation. You can beat it, at least if played as one of. Two is harder, especially if the cloned unit are Dragon Meka. But I think the problem is more about that card : doesn't get counter by drain magic like most dragon, doesn't get counter by dragon killer, very high HP, high damage and terrify. On the other side, Tree is too consistant. It takes at least two turns to kill it, sometimes 3 or 4 and then comeback. The card as a cooldown of 8, I never understood why it was reduced to 6 for the summoning equip. @Sir_V : waiting on a pile of equip in the hope that I'd be able to trade them for the last gold equip I'm missing. It's way to random as it is : I've got some in 7 of.

> *Originally posted by **[Tsua](/forums/32949/topics/738090?page=1#11231596)**:* > > On the other side, Tree is too consistant. It takes at least two turns to kill it, sometimes 3 or 4 and then comeback. The card as a cooldown of 8, I never understood why it was reduced to 6 for the summoning equip. > I have seen it explained a few times here that what is on a card =/= what is on a hero or equipment. They each have their own balancing acts to perform. As I said earlier I may be a little biased because I have one, though in another thread I argue for a change that would nerf a card I have and use in the same number of decks as Trent Root, but it seems like the game tends to favor aggro anyway. I don't see something that help utilize a little more of a midrange strategy as a bad thing. If you are going full stall, there are probably better ways to do it for most decks. Aggro is ok, it is nice to whip through fights fast, but it is also nice to see something different. Most of the time I enjoy watching a power swing more than I do a rush to the death.

@Vali - You could consider adding summoning eq and/or mirror as a reward in one of the new campaign nodes. Perhaps against a foe who uses double summoning eq and/or double mirror? This would eliminate the RNG chase for upper players while forcing people to understand how to counter the build before they acquire it through the campaign.