Hello Everyone, EDIT: We aim to have Rumble improvements live in the game by March 22. This will mean: * **The last Rumble under the current system will begin on March 1.** * **The first Rumble under the new system will begin March 22.** These dates may change if there are any delays with the version update, but we will announce ahead of time if that is the case. As a reminder, these are the planned changes: * Instead of using Siege rankings, previous Rumbles will be used to seed the following Rumble * Rewards will be revamped (details TBA) * Battle times will be extended from 8 hours to 12 hours * Event will be shortened from 6 days to 5 days * Rematch prevention will be extended to every 4 matches * Minimum activity point requirements for rewards will be updated to encourage more activity at the lower tiers * Event scoring changes, guilds that earn the top rewards will need to be ranked highly consistently throughout the event, rather than purposefully fighting lower-ranked guilds and simply ending the event higher on the Matchmaking leaderboard. You can view the original discussion here: [[OFFICIAL] Upcoming Rumble Changes](https://www.kongregate.com/forums/727066-general/topics/1524161-official-upcoming-rumble-improvements). We are so grateful for all the help and suggestions players provided and hope you will enjoy these improvements. Once the changes are live, please be sure to share any feedback or observations, as we will continue to make improvements as needed. 

first

With a shortened rumble and less matches, you guys should eliminate rematches. It will be the biggest outcry immediatly for anyone facing a better same guild vs all other who dont

Thanks Kong! I'm excited to see what the baggers resort to now

> *Originally posted by **[Da_critta](/forums/727066/topics/1550843?page=1#12452335)**:* > With a shortened rumble and less matches, you guys should eliminate rematches. It will be the biggest outcry immediatly for anyone facing a better same guild vs all other who dont They cant eliminate them completely. Say If Koabg beats WoG and no other guild has the ability to beat koabg if WoG dosnt get a chance to play them again then koabg automatically will be first and WoG wouldnt even have a chance at first. Same for every other guild and thier respectable poisitions

Thanks for keeping us in the loop. I'm not a fan of all the changes being made but still excited to see how the new improved rumble format works out.

> *Originally posted by **[walker8432](/forums/727066/topics/1550843?page=1#12452693)**:* > Thanks for keeping us in the loop. I'm not a fan of all the changes being made but still excited to see how the new improved rumble format works out. Yeah, I think if they were going to eliminate matches, going to 12 would have been better than going all the way down to 10 but I guess we'll have to see how seeding and "Victory Points" will work out. Afterall, any change is better than the current Rumble scoring rules and match-making. :D

These all sound like great improvements over the current system.

Baggers was never a problem in the rumble. The problem was HOW the rumble was scored.

> _Originally posted by **[PaulM1514](/forums/726779/topics/1550843?page=1#12452549):**_ > > *Originally posted by **[Da_critta](/forums/727066/topics/1550843?page=1#12452335)**:* > > With a shortened rumble and less matches, you guys should eliminate rematches. It will be the biggest outcry immediatly for anyone facing a better same guild vs all other who dont > > They cant eliminate them completely. Say If Koabg beats WoG and no other guild has the ability to beat koabg if WoG dosnt get a chance to play them again then koabg automatically will be first and WoG wouldnt even have a chance at first. Same for every other guild and thier respectable poisitions The could make it no rematches unless you are in say the top 25.

I think it’s great that you are working on penalizing sandbagging. However I hope you are also working on the matching system that created the spiral of death and then caused team to find it necessary to sandbag in the first place. And no I’m not from a sand bagging team. Just understand why a time just shy of being strong enough to escape the spiral would feel the need.

Thank you :-) :-) :-)

> *Originally posted by **[Redrobin00123](/forums/727066/topics/1550843?page=1#12454676)**:* > I think it’s great that you are working on penalizing sandbagging. However I hope you are also working on the matching system that created the spiral of death and then caused team to find it necessary to sandbag in the first place. And no I’m not from a sand bagging team. Just understand why a time just shy of being strong enough to escape the spiral would feel the need. Death spirals and sandbagging are two facets of the same problem. Fixing either one should eliminate the other, at least in theory.

> _Originally posted by **[improvius](/forums/726779/topics/1550843?page=1#12456421):**_ > > *Originally posted by **[Redrobin00123](/forums/727066/topics/1550843?page=1#12454676)**:* > > I think it’s great that you are working on penalizing sandbagging. However I hope you are also working on the matching system that created the spiral of death and then caused team to find it necessary to sandbag in the first place. And no I’m not from a sand bagging team. Just understand why a time just shy of being strong enough to escape the spiral would feel the need. > > Death spirals and sandbagging are two facets of the same problem. Fixing either one should eliminate the other, at least in theory. No, penalizing sandbagging is a reactive solution to players reacting to a bigger problem. Fixing the spiral of death is a proactive solution that elimates the need to sandbag in the first place.

> *Originally posted by **[Redrobin00123](/forums/727066/topics/1550843?page=1#12456466)**:* > > _Originally posted by **[improvius](/forums/726779/topics/1550843?page=1#12456421):**_ > > > *Originally posted by **[Redrobin00123](/forums/727066/topics/1550843?page=1#12454676)**:* > > > I think it’s great that you are working on penalizing sandbagging. However I hope you are also working on the matching system that created the spiral of death and then caused team to find it necessary to sandbag in the first place. And no I’m not from a sand bagging team. Just understand why a time just shy of being strong enough to escape the spiral would feel the need. > > > > Death spirals and sandbagging are two facets of the same problem. Fixing either one should eliminate the other, at least in theory. > > No, penalizing sandbagging is a reactive solution to players reacting to a bigger problem. Fixing the spiral of death is a proactive solution that elimates the need to sandbag in the first place. I'm saying that the math for all of these things is tied together. The same mechanism that gives you death spirals also enables sandbagging. One can't exist without the other.

> _Originally posted by **[improvius](/forums/726779/topics/1550843?page=1#12456679):**_ > > *Originally posted by **[Redrobin00123](/forums/727066/topics/1550843?page=1#12456466)**:* > > > _Originally posted by **[improvius](/forums/726779/topics/1550843?page=1#12456421):**_ > > > > *Originally posted by **[Redrobin00123](/forums/727066/topics/1550843?page=1#12454676)**:* > > > > I think it’s great that you are working on penalizing sandbagging. However I hope you are also working on the matching system that created the spiral of death and then caused team to find it necessary to sandbag in the first place. And no I’m not from a sand bagging team. Just understand why a time just shy of being strong enough to escape the spiral would feel the need. > > > > > > Death spirals and sandbagging are two facets of the same problem. Fixing either one should eliminate the other, at least in theory. > > > > No, penalizing sandbagging is a reactive solution to players reacting to a bigger problem. Fixing the spiral of death is a proactive solution that elimates the need to sandbag in the first place. > > I'm saying that the math for all of these things is tied together. The same mechanism that gives you death spirals also enables sandbagging. One can't exist without the other. I get what yours saying. But I feel like that is the root problem. Why are we always matched with closes scoring team especially in early rounds. Seems like that should really only happen near the end when we are closing in on placement. At which point jumps should be smaller. So the current scoring system doesn’t work with they way they are matching.

> *Originally posted by **[Redrobin00123](/forums/727066/topics/1550843?page=1#12457810)**:* > > _Originally posted by **[improvius](/forums/726779/topics/1550843?page=1#12456679):**_ > > > *Originally posted by **[Redrobin00123](/forums/727066/topics/1550843?page=1#12456466)**:* > > > > _Originally posted by **[improvius](/forums/726779/topics/1550843?page=1#12456421):**_ > > > > > *Originally posted by **[Redrobin00123](/forums/727066/topics/1550843?page=1#12454676)**:* > > > > > I think it’s great that you are working on penalizing sandbagging. However I hope you are also working on the matching system that created the spiral of death and then caused team to find it necessary to sandbag in the first place. And no I’m not from a sand bagging team. Just understand why a time just shy of being strong enough to escape the spiral would feel the need. > > > > > > > > Death spirals and sandbagging are two facets of the same problem. Fixing either one should eliminate the other, at least in theory. > > > > > > No, penalizing sandbagging is a reactive solution to players reacting to a bigger problem. Fixing the spiral of death is a proactive solution that elimates the need to sandbag in the first place. > > > > I'm saying that the math for all of these things is tied together. The same mechanism that gives you death spirals also enables sandbagging. One can't exist without the other. > > I get what yours saying. But I feel like that is the root problem. Why are we always matched with closes scoring team especially in early rounds. Seems like that should really only happen near the end when we are closing in on placement. At which point jumps should be smaller. So the current scoring system doesn’t work with they way they are matching. Honestly those are the most exciting kinds of matches, and I hope the new system gives us a lot more of them without overly penalizing us for close losses.

Excited to see how the new Rumble goes down!!!

> _Originally posted by **[KristinaA64](/forums/726779/topics/1550843?page=1#12459816):**_ > What or how do you sandbag on this? Curious...I know what sandbagging is on general card games....But how would giving points negatively impact your game on this... It has to do with how many points you score in a loss and what guilds you will face as a result of that. If you are going to lose a match under the current system, losing big will help you face easier guilds in future matches.

> *Originally posted by **[NathanV417](/forums/727066/topics/1550843?page=1#12465449)**:* > > _Originally posted by **[KristinaA64](/forums/726779/topics/1550843?page=1#12459816):**_ > > What or how do you sandbag on this? Curious...I know what sandbagging is on general card games....But how would giving points negatively impact your game on this... > > It has to do with how many points you score in a loss and what guilds you will face as a result of that. If you are going to lose a match under the current system, losing big will help you face easier guilds in future matches. It's not just losing big. Because everyone knows how many points many of the other guilds have, they can "point-target". This means they know how many points they need to score in a loss in order to get a more favorable position or matchup. That's why in many of the matches, you see only 25-35 players participate instead of 47-50.

Dang... why take so many play time away? 12h? and only 5 days? The playing time was already low... why put it lower? A rumble session last me max 15-20 min... then I had to wait almost 8 hours to re-play in a rumble.. Now gonna have to wait 12? I like all your other improvements but the 12hours and the 5 days? Not good.

> *Originally posted by **[KevinS3853](/forums/727066/topics/1550843?page=1#12479850)**:* > Y'all need to fix it so these low-level scum can't use hacks to beat everyone else cuz the British team that's in the rumble now facing my team is using hacks Can you describe these hacks?