A big money grab by Kong!

> *Originally posted by **[Jerrybooy](/forums/727066/topics/1589031?page=3#12541012)**:* > I can see a few disadvantages concerning this idea: > 1. To only make this available to players of level 12 and above is a real game changer. Until now you could start as a new player, buy out boxes twice and then you would already be able to compete with theoretically anyone (although your hero level would make things hard). Now you know that until level 12 there will be opponents that you can't beat no matter what just because of your level. I see no logical reason to exclude lower level players from this. Had I started this game under these conditions it would have driven me away. (although perhaps it might motivate others?) This part has me very confused. Do people really jump into a game and spend hundreds of dollars to be partly competitive with the top players before they have played a while to know if they really like it? Do people really think they can know enough to spend money wisely that fast? I always assumed that whales evolved -- they played, enjoyed the game, spent a little bit of money, then started spending more money. You're saying that Combo Mastery is a bad idea because it discourages people who want to be able to spend hundreds of dollars to be competitive the day they start playing??? Before they even know what the strongest combos and best battle tactics really are? Are there really enough level 10 players with quad-leg/Mythic decks that we need to worry about them?

> *Originally posted by **[Alexis_J_M](/forums/727066/topics/1589031?page=5#12548121)**:* > > *Originally posted by **[Jerrybooy](/forums/727066/topics/1589031?page=3#12541012)**:* > > I can see a few disadvantages concerning this idea: > > 1. To only make this available to players of level 12 and above is a real game changer. Until now you could start as a new player, buy out boxes twice and then you would already be able to compete with theoretically anyone (although your hero level would make things hard). Now you know that until level 12 there will be opponents that you can't beat no matter what just because of your level. I see no logical reason to exclude lower level players from this. Had I started this game under these conditions it would have driven me away. (although perhaps it might motivate others?) > > This part has me very confused. Do people really jump into a game and spend hundreds of dollars to be partly competitive with the top players before they have played a while to know if they really like it? Do people really think they can know enough to spend money wisely that fast? > > I always assumed that whales evolved -- they played, enjoyed the game, spent a little bit of money, then started spending more money. > > You're saying that Combo Mastery is a bad idea because it discourages people who want to be able to spend hundreds of dollars to be competitive the day they start playing??? Before they even know what the strongest combos and best battle tactics really are? Are there really enough level 10 players with quad-leg/Mythic decks that we need to worry about them? > Believe or not, player who joins game and spend money on the boxes can get into level of F2P veteran player that played this game for more than year.

Save your money guys, there are better things to spend your money

> _Originally posted by **[JoshW1715](/forums/726779/topics/1589031?page=1#12540042):**_ > Kong, please tell us that the only way to get whatever materials you will need for this will ONLY be available through gameplay and not for sale in the cash shop. +1

> *Originally posted by **[Bagopickles](/forums/727066/topics/1589031?page=5#12551468)**:* > > _Originally posted by **[JoshW1715](/forums/726779/topics/1589031?page=1#12540042):**_ > > Kong, please tell us that the only way to get whatever materials you will need for this will ONLY be available through gameplay and not for sale in the cash shop. > > +1 I don't understand. Do people even read the posts anymore? The opening post is 6 (in words: six) sentences long. One of those 6 sentences is the one that states these tokens will be available in the shop. The information is not buried under a wall of text, it's right there.

> *Originally posted by **[El_Vanja](/forums/727066/topics/1589031?page=5#12552253)**:* > > *Originally posted by **[Bagopickles](/forums/727066/topics/1589031?page=5#12551468)**:* > > > _Originally posted by **[JoshW1715](/forums/726779/topics/1589031?page=1#12540042):**_ > > > Kong, please tell us that the only way to get whatever materials you will need for this will ONLY be available through gameplay and not for sale in the cash shop. > > > > +1 > > I don't understand. Do people even read the posts anymore? The opening post is 6 (in words: six) sentences long. One of those 6 sentences is the one that states these tokens will be available in the shop. The information is not buried under a wall of text, it's right there. You dont get trhe point. We, community, dont want this combo mastery to be buyable in general shop with gems. We want only have combo mastery buyable only and only with other currency than gems. Modchi post says it may be avaible in general shop in future, which we dont want.

> _Originally posted by **[El_Vanja](/forums/726779/topics/1589031?page=5#12552253):**_ > > *Originally posted by **[Bagopickles](/forums/727066/topics/1589031?page=5#12551468)**:* > > > _Originally posted by **[JoshW1715](/forums/726779/topics/1589031?page=1#12540042):**_ > > > Kong, please tell us that the only way to get whatever materials you will need for this will ONLY be available through gameplay and not for sale in the cash shop. > > > > +1 > > I don't understand. Do people even read the posts anymore? The opening post is 6 (in words: six) sentences long. One of those 6 sentences is the one that states these tokens will be available in the shop. The information is not buried under a wall of text, it's right there.

^^ hmmm someone missed something ^^^

Please explain how this will affect Swole.

> *Originally posted by **[sportakus1](/forums/727066/topics/1589031?page=5#12552267)**:* > You dont get trhe point. We, community, dont want this combo mastery to be buyable in general shop with gems. That's not what the post stated. There was no voicing of disapproval, "please tell us" is asking for clarification. Of something that's been clarified. If the post was meant to be a statement against it, then it's formulated wrong. > *Originally posted by **[sportakus1](/forums/727066/topics/1589031?page=5#12552267)**:* > Modchi post says it may be avaible in general shop in future No, it doesn't: > *Originally posted by **[ModchiKopi](/forums/727066/topics/1589031?page=1#12539980)**:* > Mastery Tokens will be available as Special Event Rewards and in the Shop. There is no "future" or "maybe". It's right there, clear as daylight.

Is there a "live" release date yet?

> *Originally posted by **[El_Vanja](/forums/727066/topics/1589031?page=5#12554599)**:* > > *Originally posted by **[sportakus1](/forums/727066/topics/1589031?page=5#12552267)**:* > > You dont get trhe point. We, community, dont want this combo mastery to be buyable in general shop with gems. > > That's not what the post stated. There was no voicing of disapproval, "please tell us" is asking for clarification. Of something that's been clarified. If the post was meant to be a statement against it, then it's formulated wrong. > > > *Originally posted by **[sportakus1](/forums/727066/topics/1589031?page=5#12552267)**:* > > Modchi post says it may be avaible in general shop in future > > No, it doesn't: > > > *Originally posted by **[ModchiKopi](/forums/727066/topics/1589031?page=1#12539980)**:* > > Mastery Tokens will be available as Special Event Rewards and in the Shop. > > There is no "future" or "maybe". It's right there, clear as daylight. > > "and in the **Shop**" Which is general shop, bye.

I don't think El Vanja was complaining about shop vs. general shop, but rather 'will be' vs 'may be'. That said, the conv is a little pendantic. We know what we're getting, and by and large are not entirely comfortable with it.

Greetings, Everyone! Thank you all for sharing your feedback, questions, and concerns. Here are a few replies to top concerns/comments that we hope will better explain the design and benefits of Combo Mastery. > How will upgrading Combos work, what kind of buffs can I expect? Combo Mastery tokens are going to be combo-specific. This means that if you would like to upgrade your ‘Solid Gold Tuxedo’ combo, you will need to find ‘Solid Gold Tuxedo Tokens.’ Similar to the way Golden Turds and the Golden Turd Pack works, Combo Mastery Stones is the currency you will collect which allows you to get Combo Mastery Tokens. Combo Mastery Tokens are what you will use to actually perform the upgrade. There will be several levels of Combo Mastery and each level will mean a percentage buff to the combo. For example, level 1 Mastery of ‘Super Dance Squad’ would equal a 10% increase on the combo’s stats (though not always all of the skills). The 10% buff will apply to all rarities and recipes of the combo. > Won’t Combo Mastery make it even harder for non-spenders to play against spenders? Good question. Matchmaking is setup so that players should mostly be matched against players of similar strength, but we plan to watch this concern closely for future modifications. Currently, we intend for non-spenders to be be able to earn Mastery Tokens through events, end-game adventure, and more. > Some Combos like ‘Fry in Robot Disguise’ or ‘Super Dance Squad’ are going to get too powerful! Thank you for bringing this up! We will look into fine-tuning this system further and players may see rebalancing to Combo Mastery as a result. We plan to give players an early heads up if that is the case. > This makes it harder for new players to catch up. Combo Mastery will not be available until level 12 so it should not impact new player progression. However, we are constantly monitoring early player progression and will consider changes that can help new players catch up a bit faster over time. > If Combos are going to get super powerful, people will just use the same cards and won’t change decks with BGE. This is a great point and we understand the concern. Battleground Effects will remain an excellent source of deck strength while Combo Mastery can open up new options and strategy. A non-BGE deck with Combo Mastery should be able to compete with a BGE deck that does not have Combo Mastery. > Will Power Cards get buffed by Combo Mastery? If not, my Power Cards are going to lose their value. Currently, Combo Mastery will not improve Power Cards. Power Cards should retain their advantage because you can play the combo without an extra turn to actually make it. We do plan to watch this concern closely, though, and will announce any modification plans ahead of time. > Please don’t let people max out immediately just by paying! Combo Mastery is meant to take a good deal of time and/or dedication to complete. Combo Mastery Stones or Tokens will be available in the shop but we plan to make them available through Adventure, Events, and Rewards so that even players who choose not to spend can have access to the feature. >We should be able to grind for the tokens! More details are coming soon, but we aim to make Combo Mastery Stones available through Adventure. As mentioned above, Combo Mastery Stones will work similarly to Golden Turds in that you will collect Stones to obtain BGE-relevant Mastery Tokens. Tokens will be used to actually perform Mastery upgrades.

If you want to make it easier on f2p players, surely allow them to collect stones from level 1, not level 12? As if they only start at 12, by the time they hit 15 everyone up there will be so far ahead it'll make it almost impossible to catch up - don't limit their time to improve to only 3 levels? And I know you're here to make money - but having these for sale is silly, the top few guilds will pay your salary for a month or two buying them all our sure, but other guilds won't ever be able to compete again unless they do too. Seems like you'll just be making more of a gap at the top, especially with 4 new mythics too... Overall I just hope this idea fails and gets reversed, I can't see it doing anything positive myself, maybe I'm just pessimistic.

If people pay money to get the character they want just to do one combo they like over and over then they should be able to do so.

> *Originally posted by **[AlexC3876](/forums/727066/topics/1589031?page=5#12556675)**:* > If you want to make it easier on f2p players, surely allow them to collect stones from level 1, not level 12? They've got you covered on that one, Modchi said: "People under level 12 will be able to see tokens if they are awarded them, but won't be able to use them." which implies they can get them. Now on the 'about the whales' front, that's still an issue. > *Originally posted by **[ModchiKopi](/forums/727066/topics/1589031?page=5#12556645)**:* > Combo Mastery tokens are going to be combo-specific. This means that if you would like to upgrade your ‘Solid Gold Tuxedo’ combo, you will need to find ‘Solid Gold Tuxedo Tokens.’ Similar to the way Golden Turds and the Golden Turd Pack works, Combo Mastery Stones is the currency you will collect which allows you to get Combo Mastery Tokens. Combo Mastery Tokens are what you will use to actually perform the upgrade. ^^ this changes how this will shake out a *lot*. Discuss.

> *Originally posted by **[mattender](/forums/727066/topics/1589031?page=5#12556863)**:* > > *Originally posted by **[AlexC3876](/forums/727066/topics/1589031?page=5#12556675)**:* > > If you want to make it easier on f2p players, surely allow them to collect stones from level 1, not level 12? > > They've got you covered on that one, Modchi said: "People under level 12 will be able to see tokens if they are awarded them, but won't be able to use them." which implies they can get them. > > Now on the 'about the whales' front, that's still an issue. > > > *Originally posted by **[ModchiKopi](/forums/727066/topics/1589031?page=5#12556645)**:* > > > Combo Mastery tokens are going to be combo-specific. This means that if you would like to upgrade your ‘Solid Gold Tuxedo’ combo, you will need to find ‘Solid Gold Tuxedo Tokens.’ Similar to the way Golden Turds and the Golden Turd Pack works, Combo Mastery Stones is the currency you will collect which allows you to get Combo Mastery Tokens. Combo Mastery Tokens are what you will use to actually perform the upgrade. > > ^^ this changes how this will shake out a *lot*. Discuss. I am very concerned about how that will work. Will I get tokens for combos I can't even make? (I assume I will). Trying to level up a specific combo could become extremely tedious. My guess is that this is tied into them being available from the shop. Specific, more popular, combos will probably occasionally be available in the shop, so that those who spend can benefit from reduced randomness, while those who play for free, or don't spend much, will fall farther behind because of the randomness of rewards. I think I'd rather see show specific tokens, so that you can do combos for any character associated with a particular show. Even just based on the characters might work, because then you have to think about upgrading a few different Fry combos, or just building one up until the end. Maybe each adventure island will pull from a pool related to that show, though, which could reduce the randomness at least a little bit. So if you want Fry combos, you fight a Futurama island, and hope you get the combo you wanted, instead of a Hermes combo.

So basically what's going to happen is that we get the least used useless combo tokens. Like tuxedo Peter and such.

The system as it is described will favor spending players **tremendously**, and Kong does have to realise that. Being able to buy specific shards is the first part of whale advantage, the second part comes from the fact that the shards that are available through events will (assuming reward structure similar to every existing event) go to whales 95% of the time and amount. And this is exactly as Kong wants it: non-spending players are not even meant to compete, and spending players have to be constantly pressured to spend even more to remain competitive. Milk that sweet, sweet sunk cost fallacy for all it's worth. Kong, please $$#! off with weasel-wordy bullshit about you "understanding our concerns" and "thanking us for our questions". Nobody buys that anymore.

As I undestand that if there will be levels for combo master and 1st level will be +10%, then I assume that there will be at least 3 levels (otherwise it wouldnt make much sense to call them levels) and that will be around +30% to stats and skills. That is quite huge impact. 1) If I take in account that most BGE bonuses are between 20-50%, that will allow players to not care about BGE, buying cards, going for GT and researching combos and just fight with mastered combos. I would say that 10-15% bonus for combo mastery might be more balanced as players playing BGE will still have advantage. 2) So for players to have upper hand in BGE will be necessary to invest money in combo matery in BGE combos immediatelly in the beginning of BGE. I would assume that bonuses will be multiplied. So for example 50% cheer based on attack with 30% combo mastery will be multiplied to 95% of original value. That is almost twice a value of attack of similar non-BGE combo without combo mastery. 3) This leads to point that to remain competitive players need to dump loads of money to combo mastery as fast as they can - this isnt endgame feature that you will build during long period of time - this will be necessity to have for any viable combo. Again 10-15% might be enough.

> This leads to point that to remain competitive players need to dump loads of money to combo mastery as fast as they can - this isnt endgame feature that you will build during long period of time - this will be necessity to have for any viable combo. Again 10-15% might be enough. This **might** be manageable if they restrict the number of available (combo-specific) stones in the beginning, then gradually relax these restrictions and broaden the available possibilities to acquire stones. Basically replicate what they did with mythic stones. A positive (for Kong) side effect would be that restricted access increases the perceived value of these stones, leading to many nice *100$ for half a useable token*-packs they can sell to the top 100 players.

Realistically, the projected system of collecting stones that are used as a currency for drawing from a pool will lead to free players being fucked up by RNG anyway, especially if the pool has different probabilities for different combos based on rarity. Free players can probably look forward to powering up their Slurm Queens and other useless crap...

> *Originally posted by **[KenG205](/forums/727066/topics/1589031?page=1#12539986)**:* > My first one will be on devil hank, he’s one of my most used combos I was thinking something like this about Bad Tina...but I don't think we'll get to choose what upgrade tokens drop sinced they're now saying "BGE related"