If there's a lull in the growth there, that's fine I just want to know I'm not doing something stupid @_@

> *Originally posted by **[Dustmongery](/forums/8945/topics/783256?page=22#11474298)**:* > If there's a lull in the growth there, that's fine I just want to know I'm not doing something stupid @_@ Neutral Mercs can be used untill ~e114 gems, Reaper of Interests can be used earlier than e113 gems if you replace E350 with E1325

Remember to buff Grand Balance so it hits all 11 targets. I've run into that problem

So I've noticed that the recent patch that removed offline rush also makes it so your mana production is capped by max mana even while offline. At least thats what my initial tests indicate. So the Flower Ghoul probably needs to be revamped for faster GB11 unlocking. I've got a pretty unoptimized build that's got 4.6e6 max mana, and 5x that in mana regen. Of course, the event is adding 100% to each, so it'd only be 2.3e6 after it ends. Still much better than the listed Flower Ghoul. Since I'm sure someone else could build the details better, its Neutral, Undead Lineage, Elf A2950 Faerie Chanting/Dragons Breath spells. W1400 for 4.5e5 and C3100 for 3.5e5 max mana are the centerpieces of that side. Maybe it'd be better with Faceless lineage instead of Undead, as long as one uses DG6 to still have a boatload of assistants and therefore regen.

> *Originally posted by **[Waladil](/forums/8945/topics/783256?page=22#11474929)**:* > So I've noticed that the recent patch that removed offline rush also makes it so your mana production is capped by max mana even while offline. If that's true, the mana ocean builds will also need to be reworked

Testing this now, but it takes a long time. Only 1 day 14 minutes left on Brainwave at this point. There's some guesswork involved in the instructions. This should be very strong with high S400 and Lineages. **Braining Grounds** Good, Dragon Lineage + A2950 Elf Long Brainwave build for gem walls. Druid A2950 PACKER proved to be much better than this. The non-S400 version posted has a Brainwave duration of ~15 hours, requiring a couple additional hours before the production Brainwave if using A305 instead of A120. It is stronger than FUDG and PACKER (also without S400 buffing) and can be used to complete reincarnations when S400 buffing is not planned. FUDG is better with C1500 > 300%, Demonline high (e.g. 1500%) and 1.45M S400 required for SB28. At 1.3M S400, BG and FUDG will be about the same (with the previously mentioned buffing.) With less buffing, unused C1500 and less Demonline, BG should be stronger. **Requires:** Uninterrupted online periods of 20 hours or more as Brainwave restarts if you ever go offline or export/import. Gems needed unknown. **Buildup:** All spells and TC on autocast, don't buy Round Table/Share Benefits until starting income. Start income near the end of a Brainwave allowing at least 1 hour for income. **Be sure to maximize Brainwave duration at the start of the run.** Start casting Brainwave at less than maximum tier until you have purchased upgrades and more buildings. Have Dragon's Breath tier 5+ active before casting Brainwave at max tier (put Dragon's Breath before Brainwave in the autocast.) FR1,EL3,EL7,AN5,AN8,TT6,DD6,DD7,DN2,DG3,DG4,DG9,SP:Grand Balance,SP:Brainwave Merc 13: AN2 S305,S330,S375,S1275,S1450,S1500, C225,C340,C590,C1300,C3000,C3100, D25,D245,D330,D525,D1275,D2775, E50,E135,E350,E410,E460,E3250, A105,A120,A175,A1500,A2950,A3400, W275,W400,W560,W1400,W3050,W3150 *edits:* Changed FC7 to DD7, income increases about 2x with that change. Switched S400 and S330 alternates. Added A120 alternate. * A120 alternate: A120 is needed for a quick setup. In longer runs when that is not needed it can be replaced with A305. * S330 alternate: S400 if very high. ~~Maybe minimum 1.2M. Needs to add 2 tiers to Share Benefits.~~ S400 at least 900K or it may only need to be 400K. S400 needs to add at least 1 tier of Share Benefits to be an effective replacement for S330. * D2775 alternate: Replace D2775 with D200 if D2775 if less than 5000% and D200 adds another tier of Share Benefits (and you don't mind the 4-5 extra hours of waiting for the end of Brainwave.) I only roughly did the math for this. It's easier to just keep D2775 in the build. * Buffed C1500: C1500 and W180 can replace C225 and W400 if C1500 is at least 300%. * Replace E460 with E30 for runs over 3 days.

> *Originally posted by **[artcrow](/forums/8945/topics/783256?page=22#11481494)**:* > * Low S400 alternate: S330 S215?

> *Originally posted by **[necrodoom](/forums/8945/topics/783256?page=22#11481528)**:* > > *Originally posted by **[artcrow](/forums/8945/topics/783256?page=22#11481494)**:* > > * Low S400 alternate: S330 > > S215? > > > Once you add Share Benefits tiers, S330 is about 6x as much as S215. It's high enough that S400 needs to add 2 tiers to beat it. I'll make a note of that. SB29: S330 = 96.4x S215 = 1.578 ^ 6 = 15.4x

> *Originally posted by **[artcrow](/forums/8945/topics/783256?page=22#11481494)**:* > Testing this now, but it takes a long time. Only 1 day 14 minutes left on Brainwave at this point. There's some guesswork involved in the instructions. This should be very strong with high S400 and Lineages. > > **Braining Grounds** > Good, Dragon Lineage + A2950 Elf > > Long Brainwave build for gem walls. > > **Requires:** Uninterrupted online periods of 20 hours or more as Brainwave restarts if you ever go offline or export/import. Gems needed unknown. > > **Buildup:** All spells and TC on autocast, don't buy Round Table/Share Benefits until starting income. Start income near the end of a Brainwave allowing at least 1 hour for income. > > **Be sure to maximize Brainwave duration at the start of the run.** Start casting Brainwave at less than maximum tier until you have purchased upgrades and more buildings. Have Dragon's Breath tier 5+ active before casting Brainwave at max tier (put Dragon's Breath before Brainwave in the autocast.) > > FR1,EL3,EL7,AN5,AN8,TT6,DD6,DD7,DN2,DG3,DG4,DG9,SP:Grand Balance,SP:Brainwave > Merc 13: AN2 > > S305,S330,S375,S1275,S1450,S1500, > C225,C340,C590,C1300,C3000,C3100, > D25,D245,D330,D525,D1275,D2775, > E50,E135,E350,E410,E460,E3250, > A105,A120,A175,A1500,A2950,A3400, > W275,W400,W560,W1400,W3050,W3150 > > *edits:* Changed FC7 to DD7, switched S400 and S330 alternates. > > * S330 alternate: S400 if very high. ~~Maybe minimum 1.2M. Needs to add 2 tiers to Share Benefits.~~ S400 at least 900K. > * Replace D2775 with D200 if D2775 if less than 5000% and D200 adds another tier of Share Benefits (and you don't mind the 4-5 extra hours of waiting for the end of Brainwave.) I only roughly did the math for this. It's easier to just keep D2775 in the build. > * C1500 and W180 can replace C225 and W400 if C1500 is high enough. I don't know how high it needs to be - not as high as W400 because W180 is better than C225. > * Replace E460 with E30 for runs over 3 days. Why shouldn't we buy shared benefits? I don't understand this rule.

> *Originally posted by **[Vergilicity](/forums/8945/topics/783256?page=22#11481895)**:* > Why shouldn't we buy shared benefits? > I don't understand this rule. Tax Collection has no duration Shared Benefits has a duration Since spell casts are primarily comprised of castings of Tax Collection, buying Shared Benefits will reduce the growth of spell casts. Since some stuff scales off of spell casts(this game), you delay buying Shared Benefits until you accumulate enough spell casts.

> *Originally posted by **[Vergilicity](/forums/8945/topics/783256?page=22#11481895)**:* > > *Originally posted by **[artcrow](/forums/8945/topics/783256?page=22#11481494)**:* > > Testing this now, but it takes a long time. Only 1 day 14 minutes left on Brainwave at this point. There's some guesswork involved in the instructions. This should be very strong with high S400 and Lineages. > > > > **Braining Grounds** > > Good, Dragon Lineage + A2950 Elf > > > > Long Brainwave build for gem walls. > > > > **Requires:** Uninterrupted online periods of 20 hours or more as Brainwave restarts if you ever go offline or export/import. Gems needed unknown. > > > > **Buildup:** All spells and TC on autocast, don't buy Round Table/Share Benefits until starting income. Start income near the end of a Brainwave allowing at least 1 hour for income. > > > > **Be sure to maximize Brainwave duration at the start of the run.** Start casting Brainwave at less than maximum tier until you have purchased upgrades and more buildings. Have Dragon's Breath tier 5+ active before casting Brainwave at max tier (put Dragon's Breath before Brainwave in the autocast.) > > > > FR1,EL3,EL7,AN5,AN8,TT6,DD6,DD7,DN2,DG3,DG4,DG9,SP:Grand Balance,SP:Brainwave > > Merc 13: AN2 > > > > S305,S330,S375,S1275,S1450,S1500, > > C225,C340,C590,C1300,C3000,C3100, > > D25,D245,D330,D525,D1275,D2775, > > E50,E135,E350,E410,E460,E3250, > > A105,A120,A175,A1500,A2950,A3400, > > W275,W400,W560,W1400,W3050,W3150 > > > > *edits:* Changed FC7 to DD7, switched S400 and S330 alternates. > > > > * S330 alternate: S400 if very high. ~~Maybe minimum 1.2M. Needs to add 2 tiers to Share Benefits.~~ S400 at least 900K. > > * Replace D2775 with D200 if D2775 if less than 5000% and D200 adds another tier of Share Benefits (and you don't mind the 4-5 extra hours of waiting for the end of Brainwave.) I only roughly did the math for this. It's easier to just keep D2775 in the build. > > * C1500 and W180 can replace C225 and W400 if C1500 is high enough. I don't know how high it needs to be - not as high as W400 because W180 is better than C225. > > * Replace E460 with E30 for runs over 3 days. > > Why shouldn't we buy shared benefits? > I don't understand this rule. You can't spam SB, you want number of spellcast, so you cast as much TC as you can before switch to production.

> *Originally posted by **[artcrow](/forums/8945/topics/783256?page=22#11481494)**:* > Testing this now, but it takes a long time. Only 1 day 14 minutes left on Brainwave at this point. There's some guesswork involved in the instructions. This should be very strong with high S400 and Lineages. > > **Braining Grounds** > Good, Dragon Lineage + A2950 Elf > > Long Brainwave build for gem walls. > > **Requires:** Uninterrupted online periods of 20 hours or more as Brainwave restarts if you ever go offline or export/import. Gems needed unknown. > > **Buildup:** All spells and TC on autocast, don't buy Round Table/Share Benefits until starting income. Start income near the end of a Brainwave allowing at least 1 hour for income. > > **Be sure to maximize Brainwave duration at the start of the run.** Start casting Brainwave at less than maximum tier until you have purchased upgrades and more buildings. Have Dragon's Breath tier 5+ active before casting Brainwave at max tier (put Dragon's Breath before Brainwave in the autocast.) > > FR1,EL3,EL7,AN5,AN8,TT6,DD6,DD7,DN2,DG3,DG4,DG9,SP:Grand Balance,SP:Brainwave > Merc 13: AN2 > > S305,S330,S375,S1275,S1450,S1500, > C225,C340,C590,C1300,C3000,C3100, > D25,D245,D330,D525,D1275,D2775, > E50,E135,E350,E410,E460,E3250, > A105,A120,A175,A1500,A2950,A3400, > W275,W400,W560,W1400,W3050,W3150 > > *edits:* Changed FC7 to DD7, switched S400 and S330 alternates. > > * S330 alternate: S400 if very high. ~~Maybe minimum 1.2M. Needs to add 2 tiers to Share Benefits.~~ S400 at least 900K. > * Replace D2775 with D200 if D2775 if less than 5000% and D200 adds another tier of Share Benefits (and you don't mind the 4-5 extra hours of waiting for the end of Brainwave.) I only roughly did the math for this. It's easier to just keep D2775 in the build. > * C1500 and W180 can replace C225 and W400 if C1500 is high enough. I don't know how high it needs to be - ~~not as high as W400 because W180 is better than C225.~~ > * Replace E460 with E30 for runs over 3 days. This looks superinteresting! What if, only for long runs, we replace Grand Balance with Combo Strike, using W520 and DR9?

> *Originally posted by **[Giappo](/forums/8945/topics/783256?page=22#11483725)**:* > > *Originally posted by **[artcrow](/forums/8945/topics/783256?page=22#11481494)**:* > > Testing this now, but it takes a long time. Only 1 day 14 minutes left on Brainwave at this point. There's some guesswork involved in the instructions. This should be very strong with high S400 and Lineages. > > > > **Braining Grounds** > > Good, Dragon Lineage + A2950 Elf > > > > Long Brainwave build for gem walls. > > > > **Requires:** Uninterrupted online periods of 20 hours or more as Brainwave restarts if you ever go offline or export/import. Gems needed unknown. > > > > **Buildup:** All spells and TC on autocast, don't buy Round Table/Share Benefits until starting income. Start income near the end of a Brainwave allowing at least 1 hour for income. > > > > **Be sure to maximize Brainwave duration at the start of the run.** Start casting Brainwave at less than maximum tier until you have purchased upgrades and more buildings. Have Dragon's Breath tier 5+ active before casting Brainwave at max tier (put Dragon's Breath before Brainwave in the autocast.) > > > > FR1,EL3,EL7,AN5,AN8,TT6,DD6,DD7,DN2,DG3,DG4,DG9,SP:Grand Balance,SP:Brainwave > > Merc 13: AN2 > > > > S305,S330,S375,S1275,S1450,S1500, > > C225,C340,C590,C1300,C3000,C3100, > > D25,D245,D330,D525,D1275,D2775, > > E50,E135,E350,E410,E460,E3250, > > A105,A120,A175,A1500,A2950,A3400, > > W275,W400,W560,W1400,W3050,W3150 > > > > *edits:* Changed FC7 to DD7, switched S400 and S330 alternates. > > > > * S330 alternate: S400 if very high. ~~Maybe minimum 1.2M. Needs to add 2 tiers to Share Benefits.~~ S400 at least 900K. > > * Replace D2775 with D200 if D2775 if less than 5000% and D200 adds another tier of Share Benefits (and you don't mind the 4-5 extra hours of waiting for the end of Brainwave.) I only roughly did the math for this. It's easier to just keep D2775 in the build. > > * C1500 and W180 can replace C225 and W400 if C1500 is high enough. I don't know how high it needs to be - ~~not as high as W400 because W180 is better than C225.~~ > > * Replace E460 with E30 for runs over 3 days. > > This looks superinteresting! > What if, only for long runs, we replace Grand Balance with Combo Strike, using W520 and DR9? No. It would take 9 months for w520 to account for 10%( which isn't good anyways) of your assistants, and thats not counting whatever headstart would be after 9 months. i have 6h left on my brainwave(28h total) and i'm at 1.7e6 assistants. EDIT: for fun i think headstart would be ~22 hours after 9 months

> *Originally posted by **[Giappo](/forums/8945/topics/783256?page=22#11483725)**:* > > This looks superinteresting! > What if, only for long runs, we replace Grand Balance with Combo Strike, using W520 and DR9? Tier 4 has 4 large upgrades. DD7 is technically the smallest at ~~19x~~ 6x *I accidentally included C300. It should be 4.7B% without C300*. With DD7 I'm getting 15B% on Training Grounds. I think Combo strike x DW9 takes a very long run to reach 1B%. --- I'm finishing the tests of FUDG and Braining Grounds with S400=1.344M, Lineages level 29, C1500=730%, Demonline=2272%. High Demonline and C1500 together help FUDG more but the new build looks like it will still have higher production. I'm curious how they compare without S400 or C1500. Surprisingly both builds will rank 3rd and 4th behind the Druid and Demon A2950 versions of this build I had tested 2 days ago: *edits* Changed E30 from 2 days to 3. Clarified some instructions. Added A120 alternate A150. Condensed Druid builds. E495 isn't high enough vs C1300. Back to 2 Druid strings. A D200/A120 one for buffing S400 and a D1375/A150 one for high S400 that has very high production with 1 Brainwave of ~27-29 hours. Brainwave can range up to 35 hours with D200. At Druid Lineage 29. The A2950 Lineage increases spell duration. And back to 1 string. **Updated for v3.0 - Pre R90 version for no Veteran Figurine artifact.** *Swapped DD7 into both builds.* #### Protracted Automatic Casting Key Evil Reincarnator (PACKER) **Alignment: Evil** **Druid A2950 is stronger than Demon.** Brainwave over 30 hours long in the Druid build. Over 20 in the Demon build. Game must be left online during Brainwave or the spell time will reset. It can be valuable to align the end of Brainwaves with Sun Force Production. Be sure to have DB5 active and buildings built up before activating BW6 (or the highest tier you have unlocked.) Put Dragon's Breath before Brainwave in the autocast. If you started an excessively short Brainwave at max tier you can export/import or go offline and come back to reset spells intentionally. **Dragon Lineage + Druid A2950** **Recommended:** Buffed S400 from Dragon Elf [S400 run](http://musicfamily.org/realm/SpecialBuilds/). Merc 13: UD7 EL3,EL7,AN2,AN5,AN8,TT6,DD6,DD7,DN2,DG3,DG4,DG9,SP:Grand Balance,SP:Brainwave S50,S305,S375,S400,S1450,S1500, C340,C400,C590,C1300,C3000, D25,D245,D330,D1275,D1375,D2775, E10,E135,E145,E350,E1225,E3250, A10,A150,A410,A1500,A2950,A3400, W180,W275,W400,W525,W3050,W3150 * Open Craftsmanship slot: Higher of C150/C1500 * D1375 alternate: D200 for S400 buffing. D1375 is the stronger production upgrade, but it requires high S400 from a previous long buff run to be better than D200 for most purposes. Self buffing S400 is not recommended. A dedicated S400 buff run with Dragon + Elf will produce a higher S400 than this build. * A150 alternate: A120 isn't very useful as it increases production by about 5-6% and lets you cast the first Brainwave with increased duration slightly sooner than A150. A150 can replace A120 in the S400 buff string for higher production losing some S400 buffing at the start of Brainwave to low regeneration. After 2 days or more, A150 will pass A10, and A150 and A120 can be used for long runs dropping A10, but it's better to use A10 and A150 without A120. **Dragon Lineage + Demon A2950** **Requires:** Buffed S400 from Dragon Elf S400 run (or Druid A2950 version of this build.) Merc 13: UD7 EL3,AN2,AN5,AN8,TT6,DD6,DD7,FC7,DN2,DG3,DG4,DG9,SP:Grand Balance,SP:Brainwave S50,S305,S375,S400,S1450,S1500, C340,C400,C590,C1300,C3000, D25,D245,D330,D1275,D1375,D2775, E10,E135,E145,E350,E1225,E3250, A10,A150,A410,A1500,A2950,A3400, W180,W275,W400,W525,W3050,W3150 * A150 alternate: A120. * Open Craftsmanship slot: Higher of C150/C1500.

> *Originally posted by **[artcrow](/forums/8945/topics/783256?page=22#11483818)** > > I'm finishing the tests of FUDG and Braining Grounds... > Surprisingly both builds will rank 3rd and 4th behind the Druid and Demon A2950 versions of this build I had tested 2 days ago Are you saying that these evil builds are stronger than FUDG? After how much buildup?

I tested them with the same conditions as above: R94 2.5e125 gems (250 Qag) S400 = 1.344M Lineages level 29 C1500 = ~~710%~~ 730% Demonline = 2272% W275 = 120.5M% (from event) I used D1375 instead of D200 for testing both A2950 bloodlines. *All income tests were during Sun Force Production.* *edit: I checked these and the income values were closer to 20 hours. I started income for FUDG at 18 hours. After more checking, the PACKER run was 18 hours 7 minutes and FUDG was 19 hours 39 minutes.* The Demonline build had an 18 hour Brainwave and got 10x the income of FUDG (also in 18 hours) reaching 6e125 gems I think. In FUDG I replaced C1300 with C1500. I think I could have taken FR7 for Fairy Chanting and gotten SB28 with D1375 in that FUDG build and doubled my income. In that case letting income go until over a day would have gotten FUDG higher before the 2nd Brainwave finished. *edit: Nope. Checked the import and I'm about 50K short of SB28 with FR7. I guess I could have used D200 instead of D1375.* I messed up the Druid A2950 test by starting BW6 before the length got high. By the time I noticed I just decided to let the test continue. With 20 hours of Brainwave out of the 30 hour length it was on pace to be stronger than Demon. Changing D1375 to D200 should make the Demon build better, but I only have D200 as an S400 buffer for the Druidline build so the test with D1375 should have been optimal. edit: Starting with low S400, the Druid build will be much stronger at the end of the 2nd Brainwave.

Whats your rating on the different builds you posted so far (Wall Basher, Braining Grounds, Packer (druid and demon) I want to catalog these on the wiki.

Brainwave builds don't offer much in the way of short runs and there's a long wait for the next high income period if the build doesn't produce enough. **Good - High buffing:** *FUDG basically better at 1.45M mana with 2 tiers of SB from S400 (and with C1300 to C1500 switch.) BG better at 1.344M when I tested.* With the high C1500 and even more buffing, S400 of 1.45M with high Evil time FUDG can hit SB28 and do very well vs the narrow window of income that BG has. FUDG handles the C1500 switch much better gaining possibly 8x income vs Braining Grounds in the C1500 builds. **Good - No buffing:** *BG drops S330 for S400 and FUDG drops S215. S400 adds a larger percentage to FUDG without C3100 and W1400 than BG but BG gains more from spell duration added by S400. The net result seems to favor BG without S400. The strength of D200 swaps varies with D2775 for BG.* I don't know how Braining Grounds does unbuffed vs FUDG unbuffed. That would need to be tested to categorize them. Shorter variants *of BG/Packer* may be possible but they get weaker as you swap upgrades. **Evil:** *Use Druid early. Demon could turn out to be stronger in later runs.* The S400 growth from the Druid Evil build falls short of the dedicated S400 build. A run around 2 days should be fairly productive and produce a decent S400. The evil builds are somewhat easier to run. *For Packer* I still don't know which of Demon or Druid A2950 comes out ahead in longer runs with alternating Brainwaves. *The gem totals I reached aren't the actual range on these builds or FUDG for many players. High D2775, event bonus, rubies, Dragon Heritage and DG4 make my gem range higher than newer players.*

Anyone have ideas on a good, quick lineage pushing build for L25+ at R90+?

> *Originally posted by **[haliney](/forums/8945/topics/783256?page=22#11484693)**:* > Anyone have ideas on a good, quick lineage pushing build for L25+ at R90+? I used the L25 builds for pushing to L27 for all lineages. (http://musicfamily.org/realm/SpecialBuilds/) I don't know if there is a better option for L28+

After more testing Druid PACKER looks best for runs of 26+ hours with the high S400 string (mine is over 28 hours with 1.344M S400.) **Common Stats** R94 2.5e145 gems (250.1 Qag) W275 = 120.5M%. Allowed builds without A120 to tier up and start Brainwave sooner. Demon Bloodline = 2272% - 10d 3h 38m as Evil. C1500 = 864% - 7d 6h 14m as Neutral. C1500 = 710% - x as Neutral. **FUDG C1500 D1375 C400 W180 AN2** 25.5 hours, C1500 = 710%, Sun Force Assistants Income from end of 1 Fairy Chanting and full 2nd Fairy Chanting duration 9400 seconds. 1.77e264 coins. C225/W590 should have been better than C400,W180. W25 if W25 gets higher than W590. I calculate it as 75% more income. 3.1e264 coins with this change. This had SB27. With S400 = ~1.35M, income could be doubled by taking FR7 instead of AN2. 250% more income combined with the previous change (requires more than 10 days S400 buff.) S400=1.445M should be enough for a very high production FUDG build that casts SB28 with Merc 13 AN2, C1500 (buffed), C225, W25/W590, and D1375. S400 needs to be higher before last e3 of R94 or with less than level 29 Dragon Lineage. 950% more income than the test at 25.5 hours using C225/W590. Assumed W590 = 150%. Projected coin production of tested build but with SB28 C225 W590: 1.85e265 coins **BG C1500 A305 D2775** 24.25 hours, C1500=864%, Sun Force Offline (at end) 90 minutes of income at end of Brainwave. 4e264 coins. Production varies with Dragon's Breath luck from 1x production with White (x2) to 2x with Green(x2). This test had all DB:Black giving 1.94x production (above average). **PACKER Druid C1500 A150 D1375 C400 E495** 29 hours, C1500=864%, Sun Force Assistants (at end) 17h 30m: ~2e264 coins. Sun Force Production end. 22h: 1.4e265 24h: 4.43e265 29h: 4.22e266 Older version of build: Project 30% more income from C1300/E225 (and higher when E225, instead of E350, is swapped out for E30 in longer runs.) --- I worked out some of the scaling for the builds to better compare upgrades. I didn't look up all the upgrade formulas (mainly over time upgrades) and some formulas may be wrong/not updated. Headstart lowers the effective increase of Spell Duration upgrades. As Brainwave duration increases (from multiple duration upgrades) the impact of Headstart becomes smaller and duration upgrades provide closer to their tooltip values in extra assistants and Brainwave Production. In my current run D330 increases Brainwave production by 1.941^0.6x and assistants by 3.77x at the end of Brainwave. D330 = 4x assist, 4^0.8x spells and regen, 2^0.6x Brainwave production. AN8 = 2.25x assist, 2.25^0.8x spells and regen, 1.5^0.8x Brainwave Production. D200 = 1.44x assist, 1.44^0.8x regen, 1.25x spells at max, 1.44^0.8 x 1.25x spells at non max, 1.2^0.6x Brainwave production D200 production Demon PACKER (1.3387 x 1.25) ^ 2.42 x 1.3387 ^ 0.4 x 1.44 ^ 3.95 = 16.49x x 1.2^0.6 = 18.4x Reduced Combo Frequency works against duration upgrades and may make D200 worse than D1375 for long multi Brainwave runs. **PACKER Demon** A150 Assist: 3.95 Spells without Regeneration: 2.42 Spells and Regeneration: 2.82 Regen without spells: 0.40 Mana Produced: 0.06 Time: ? **PACKER Druid** A150 Assist: 3.95 Spells without Regeneration: 2.5 Spells and Regeneration: 0.485 (scaling from regen upgrades such as FC7) Regen without spells: 0.485 Mana Produced: 0.06 Time: ? **Braining Grounds** Assist: 3.85 Spells without Regeneration: 1.065 Spells and Regeneration: 1.315 Regen without spells: 0.25 Mana Produced: 0 Time: ? --- **Scaling Exponents** **Assistants** Enchanted Fields: 0.07 S1450: 0.85 W3050: 0.8 (x2) UD7: 0.1 TT6: 0.1 Assistant Series: 0.3 Assistant income: 1 Fairy Lineage: ? **Spells Cast** * Below Max Mana: Scales with Regeneration and Spell Cost Reduction upgrades. * At Max Mana: Scales with Max Mana upgrades and spell Cost Reduction upgrades. * Additionally scales with time. Reap Interests: 0.355 (with 60 second base tax collection) AN2: 0.08 DB:Green: 0.625 W525/D525 + Drow Challenge 5: 0.36 (.06 x Blood Frenzy tier) Tax Collection rate: 1 D55: 0.08 S460: 0.08 D435: 0.085 W25: 0.06 S400: 0.35 Max Mana Holy Crusaders: 0.5 Assistants **Mana Produced** * Below Max Mana: Scales with Regeneration upgrades. * At Max Mana: Scales with Max Mana upgrades upgrades. * Additionally scales with time. S250: 0.058 S545: 0.045 A150: 0.06 **Regeneration** S305 + D25 + Van!shment: ~0.25 local scaling Tyrant Garrison: ~0.15 local scaling DN8: 0.085 S150: 0.13 D320: 0.085 D590: 0.125 Dwarven Forge: 0.09 **Time** DB:Black: ? Demon Bloodline: 0.8 Gem production Dragon Challenge 6: 0.8 Gem production Headstart: 2 Assistants, 0.6 Brainwave Production The net scaling of Headstart is very good, t ^ 14.3 in Demon PACKER. But it scales against a large offset and doesn't make D330 or AN8 worse than alternatives. This may be around 10x in a month long Demonline run without D200. **Spell Duration** * Scales with Max Mana through Druid Challenge 4. Brainwave: 0.6 (0.1 x Tier), 2 Assistants from S375 Fairy Chanting: ? (?/6 x Tier) with A30 **Faction Coin Chance** Dragon Bloodline: 0.4 C590: 0.1 Elf Heritage: 0.1 EL7: 0.1

@artcrow, how is Packer:druid looking in relation to FUDG D1375? or is it still too early to tell.... admittedly i hope the evil builds win. I'm seeing Packer:Druid pull away as well, after both went through the first prod phase, druid is posting x90 gains over demon. my new brainwave time is 32hrs49m. gems are currently at 5.1e133, which honestly is really impressive to me after seeing FUDG drop off after the event ended. if the next brainwave cycle nets x10 gems i will be ecstatic. looking at the BG production, I really wish i had made the c1500 change.... the build doesnt hold up to either of the PACKER builds at this point, at the end of the second brainwave prod is just passing the packer:demon build. I think i'll reset this window and run wall basher, depending on what you see from the FUDG D1375 build.

At 16.5 hours with 12.5 hours left on Brainwave: 1e264 coins with Sun Force Production. Equivalent of 2.74e263 coins without Sun Force Production. FUDG at 25.5 hours: 1.77e264. Equivalent of 1.85e265 coins with FUDG SB28 and no D200 or FR7. It wasn't possible to get SB28 in the tested build. I just calculated the relative strength of the changes to the build. This was the strongest FUDG variant with S400 + Evil + Neutral time buffed. I don't know how much D200 adds with lower S400 (when FR7 wouldn't be enough to get SB28.) FR1,EL3,EL7,AN5,TT6,DD6,DD7,FC7,DN2,DG3,DG4,DG9,SP:Grand Balance,SP:Fairy Chanting Merc 13: AN2, DN8 if it's higher, FR7 if it adds a tier. S305,S330,S400,S1275,S1450,S1500, C225,C300,C340,C590,C1500,C3000, D25,D245,D525,D1275,D1375,D2775, E50,E135,E350,E410,E460,E3250, A30,A105,A120,A1500,A2950,A3400, W10,W275,W400,W1375,W3150 W25 or W590. Or if you can find anything else useful... C1500 alternate: C400 if C1500 is less than 110%. C400 can be as low as 100% if W275 is buffed (from the Goblin Invasion event for example.) Poor faction coin generation, but it can afford the important spell tiers as the run progresses.

> *Originally posted by **[Stevemcqeen](/forums/8945/topics/783256?page=22#11488511)**:* > @artcrow, how is Packer:druid looking in relation to FUDG D1375? or is it still too early to tell.... admittedly i hope the evil builds win. In 22.5 hours Druid PACKER has passed the projected FUDG SB28 25.5 hour run. Nearly 2e165 coins now. The Brainwave finished at 29 hours with over 4.22e166 coins. The 24.5 hour FUDG run got 1.77e264. Adjusting for FUDG SB28 at higher S400 and a couple suboptimal upgrades in the test: FUDG 24.5: 1.8e265 PACKER 29: 5.5e266

> *Originally posted by **[artcrow](/forums/8945/topics/783256?page=22#11483818)**:* > #### Protracted Automatic Casting Key Evil Reincarnator (PACKER) So, while I haven't done any testing of artcrow's new builds, this is what I can say. First of all, I'm at R93 (ended the event in R93). And been having problems getting to R94...well I shouldn't say problems, because I know I can get to R94 (this is before artcrow's new builds), just that it became really slow. So I had run a couple of the standard FUDG builds and reached about e120 gems (where you need 1.7e126 to R). Then I ran artcrow's version of FUDG with a high S400 (I used it at an S400 of 823k, and a W275 of 30 million percent), and it got me to 6.4e121. Now, it could have gotten me further, but it was already very slow. These FUDG runs were all 8-12 hour runs. Then comes the PACKER. Since, out of his new builds this one seems like the best I tried that one last night. I'm currently 12 hours into this run with 9 hours left on my Brainwave and I'm already at 2.8e122 gems. And I didn't plan ahead to align the last couple hours with Sunforce production (I think I will miss the last hour or 45 minutes of my Brainwave with it). So already this is a stronger build. Thank you for the build!