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For those that need a reminder,
**Form:
**Boosts Attack, Hit, and Defense a little each Rank (Including Novice.)
Att,Hit,Def: 0 (+4) [At level 0]
There are only a few ranks, so this bonus doesn't stack very high which is pretty crappy for late game. Is anyone really taking this skill? I think if it were based on percent it would be better to scale with the progression.


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I am using Form.
Pre 0.13.5:
4 x 8 x 3 x 6 = 576 stats each
Ver 0.13.5:
6 x 10 x 3 x 6 = 1080 stats each.


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Because of the way stats are used in calculations Form is actually one of the best abilities because its effect doesn't diminish with each level like most of the others. (For example Mentor gives 100% so the first level doubles your exp. You will need 2 more levels to double exp again, 4 levels for the next time, etc...)


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> *Originally posted by **[tovrick](/forums/951337/topics/903559?page=1#11597446)**:*
> Because of the way stats are used in calculations Form is actually one of the best abilities because its effect doesn't diminish with each level like most of the others. (For example Mentor gives 100% so the first level doubles your exp. You will need 2 more levels to double exp again, 4 levels for the next time, etc...)
That's a really bizarre way of looking at it. They all work in the same, additive, way.
Form is good enough if you can get all the stars (though, obviously, that means you don't have all that much need for it at the moment), and it definitely is a good skill to get, a useful one. But saying that it doesn't diminish whereas others do is ... well, that's just bullshit, none of them really diminish, the bonus from one level to another is the same.


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Technically, Form is additive in the same way as the experience boosts are, but the biggest difference is how expontential exp needs are compared to stats. Honestly, the two best Mastery Skills are Leadership and Wisdom, but I would put Form Innovation (with 18th star reward) and Prowess as second Teir, with everything else third teir (not saying you should ignore them, but you shouldn't spend past your level in scrolls). With a level 473 disciple, and all skills capped, Form represents about 2025% of my stats, and the eariler levels grinding up to that point it is far more. Before you can research it to about level 34 in scrolls, it isn't very powerful, but about level 150 when you get those extra mastery points and research, it becomes very powerful, and vastly speeds up battles as each point gives 24 of each stat, which is on par or better then prowess (which becomes increasingly less powerful late game). Simply put, my disciples are beating the level 270 rival at around level 140, just because of the stat gains that form and prowess give.


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The +100% from each level of mentor is added together before it is used to calculate exp, therefore it diminishes with each level. An example of a bonus that does not diminish are equipment upgrades. They multiply hp and dmg by 1.2 (+20%) every level. Form does not diminish because in calculations every 20 skill points (on average) translates to a 1% change in att, hit or defend chance.


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> *Originally posted by **[tovrick](/forums/951337/topics/903559?page=1#11600308)**:*
> The +100% from each level of mentor is added together before it is used to calculate exp, therefore it diminishes with each level. An example of a bonus that does not diminish are equipment upgrades. They multiply hp and dmg by 1.2 (+20%) every level. Form does not diminish because in calculations every 20 skill points (on average) translates to a 1% change in att, hit or defend chance.
Again, with what you wrote here they work the same way, there is no “diminishing” of the kind you are implying is going on.
Certainly, the amount of experience per level increases in a nonadditive way, therefore making it so that as time passes and you reach higher levels you have to spend more time grinding for another one. But every single bloody level of the +experience skills gives you the same bloody bonus: if you have 3 mentors with 8 ranks in that skill each, that's 3 times 8 times 100% = 2400%, no bloody diminishing of any kind whatsoever.
One's perception may be that each additional level is less effective as far as the time saved goes, but the skill does not state that it decreases the amount of time you need to level up, it states that it increases experience, and that is what it does, with no bloody diminishing of any kind. Certainly, with +100% you need effectively half the time (50%) you would need with +0%, whereas with +2400% you need 96% of the time you would need with +2300%, but that's talking about time saved, not about the effect the skills have which is not diminishing. And let's not bloody forget that the offline gains skill bonus is multiplicative with the normal experience bonus, so saying that it's diminishing because it's additive and there are multiplicative bonuses *to something completely different* ... no, just no.
Either you've chosen the wrong word to describe it or you are being obtuse.


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Maybe diminish is the wrong word but I think of the bonus from Mentor that way because if your are earning 1000 exp then Mentor Level 1 changes it to 2000 so that is an increase of 100%. Level 2 Mentor changes it from 2000 to 3000 which is only an increase of 50%. Level 3 mentor is 4000 so that is a 33% change. And it gets worse the further on you go. So it is always best to spread your points out between all of the exp bonuses (2 levels of Mentor is only 3x while 1 level of Mentor + 1 level of Meditation = 4x)
Form and a couple other skills don't have this problem which is why I hesitate to raise the Mastery Skill cap too much. If they were all like Mentor I could raise the cap to 20 and it would barely make a dent in player's progress. (With all 4 mastery exp skills at level 10 for all 3 masters and activating at the same time you get around 5,334,511x exp and at level 20 for all you would get 81,443,621x  which is only actually 16x more than before. I'd have to raise it to 40 to get another 16x change, and 80 to get the next 16x, and so on) That's also the reason why Advocate and Mentor got large bonuses with their Rival Star upgrades while Form only got a 50% bonus.
