> *Originally posted by **[IronPompey](/forums/955764/topics/1595248?page=3#12578787)**:* > > *Originally posted by **[RavenTheNinja](/forums/955764/topics/1595248?page=3#12576954)**:* > > > _Originally posted by **[IronPompey](/forums/941638/topics/1595248?page=3#12574556):**_ > > > iron clad was meant to be increased strength at higher levels. actually level 4 now spawns 4 bots rather than 5 is this a mistake? Having purchased upgrades to get to level 4 then had it taken away is quite annoying. What if i buy more upgrades? I cant be sure that i get to use what i purchase? It's kind of ruined my deck.... > > > > > > im not sure how i feel about purchasing something and then, after real money has been taken, having the deal changed and being given something else instead.... > > > > I had to work through this head game too!!! I had saved up fusion stones for a month and a half (needed 33 iirc) to take Crimson Sentry from L3 to L4. Believed the shift from bordering to surrounding would take my deck to the next level... Anyhow, the day after upgrading is when they announced revamping the card and poison as a whole making the card completely useless :( Having dumped a few hundred dollars into the game over the previous 6 months, I sent a letter to support hoping the could set the card back and return the stones - basically reverse the transaction. Got back a “sorrry, not sorry you’re SoL” type response. Very upset at the time... Still pretty salty. But obviously I am still here - lol. I do enjoy the game a lot, just not nearly the pure loyalty advocate I used to be for Stormbound. > > Well that tells me all i needed to know thanks. If are selling something, for real money, you cant change it afterwards. Game deleted. > > Balancing happens in games, and it happens all the time. You can't compare a game to something like a store purchase. The balance changes are based on way more things than "will this affect some decks negatively," because they put the majority of players over small groups. This happens in any balance change, in pretty much every single game. Games should change and patch themselves to keep it interesting and fun, but hey, if you really don't think they shouldn't because it would upset you, that's fine.

Balance changes are acceptable, and understandable. Selling something, then changing what you sold, is unnaceptable. I can't name another business where that is, negatively, allowed to happen. You've never bought an airline seat Business Class, and found yourself in Economy, without compensation You've never bought and paid for a steak in a restaurant, and been given a salad You've never bought and paid for a car, and been given a bicycle When Sony attempted to remove Linux support, from consoles people had bought and paid for, [they were sued](https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2010/04/ps3-linux-support-removal-begets-class-actin-lawsuit/) Honestly, nobody is going to start litigation over an iOS game. It's poor business though, to take money off of people (that they've worked hard for), and then give them less than what was promised.

> _Originally posted by **[IronPompey](/forums/941638/topics/1595248?page=4#12580181):**_ > Well that tells me all i needed to know thanks. If are selling something, for real money, you cant change it afterwards. Game deleted. Woah, Ghost!

I can say for my self, a break from the game is needed. Devs need to figure out what kind of game they want this to be. Appeasing the aggro swarm decks because of the profit they bring in just hurts the rest of the community. This is no longer a strategy game. It's clear with the insane buffs to swarm and cards like Needle blast that the devs are more interested in making money than providing the users giving them that money with a well balanced and fair game. They're totally in their right to make a profit from their product but the way they're doing it doesn't sit well with me. This game had so much potential to be a stand out mobile game with it's simple idea. You pull the strategy from the game and all you're left with is a pay to win mess. I hope for the sake of the people who properly enjoyed this game that the devs steer this game back in the right direction. I'll check back in some time soon.

> _Originally posted by **[AngryTurtle98](/forums/941638/topics/1595248?page=4#12580751):**_ > I can say for my self, a break from the game is needed. Devs need to figure out what kind of game they want this to be. Appeasing the aggro swarm decks because of the profit they bring in just hurts the rest of the community. This is no longer a strategy game. This is laughably incorrect, please sit down, look at an avarage "aggroswarm" deck and let me know if you still think you're on planet earth... How many Legendaries/Epics are in Swarm aggro, of which are competitive lv3-5? **Ubass**, **RestlessGoats**, or **Vindicators** **NeedleBlast** for chip decks. The whole point to rush/aggro is cheap, quick cards to flood the enemy base and push for damage, so please tell me why you think that's expensive. As opposed to say competitive Winter decks - with Rare combos, Mirz, GotW, Olf, Zhevana, i could go on. *Cheap* competitive decks Rank 10-1, 3/4 times contain **Common** lv4-5 cards with Epics and Legends like the ones I claimed to have are often obtained and Leveled via Fusionstones. 65 per month, inorder to obtain the "P2W" cards. Get a clue. >It's clear with the insane buffs to swarm and cards like Needle blast that the devs are more interested in making money than providing the users giving them that money with a well balanced and fair game. Insane buff to Swarm? What **Vindicators** now achieve 7damage in some scenarios. What Rank are you playing where the rest are a serious problem? And Buff to **Needle Blast**? Care to explain?... Practically the sole purpose to the game is to reach Rank1 every month, and your complaining about one of the easiest methods to hit Rank1. Cause you loose a few games to certain cards @ whatever rank you are. > They're totally in their right to make a profit from their product but the way they're doing it doesn't sit well with me. > > This game had so much potential to be a stand out mobile game with it's simple idea. You pull the strategy from the game and all you're left with is a pay to win mess. I hope for the sake of the people who properly enjoyed this game that the devs steer this game back in the right direction. I'll check back in some time soon. If you want to go have a break cause your salty about losses then go ahead, why you gotta tell the world aboit it? Especially when your reasons for doing so are just stupidly wrong. The only thing i've read from you here is that **Needle Blast** is a "problem" , as thats the case, go jump on an already made topic about the card and add to the list of complaints.

> *Originally posted by **[AzazeL___](/forums/955764/topics/1595248?page=4#12580766)**:* What Vindicators now achieve 7damage in some scenarios.  **It's a potential 6 damage at lvl 3 and 9 damage at lvl 4 bro**..... Now continue with the rebuttal

.

Lul yeah guess with mine being Lv4 (5strength) deal 2dmge before attacking = 7 damage to face. That's where I'm coming from dno how you're getting potential 9damage, unless you mean GreenProto's, in which case, they could be attacking a 1strength Lv5, or a 3strength Lv4, kinda adding too many irrelevant variables there. Yeah coming from someone who uses them regularly, the majority of cases deal 2-7 damage in my games, there's far too many factors in endgame to say they're consistent wincondition, since 6mana does make a huge difference to tempo and if the game is still high HP then I'm going to loose board control because of high mana cost, much like a certain spell.... its all down to optimal mana curve with & against chipdecks. Case still stands though, Swarmaggro being the Developer's source of profit while destroying the "Soul" / "Integrity" of the game is some pure trash statement with no decent reasoning.

> *Originally posted by **[AngryTurtle98](/forums/955764/topics/1595248?page=4#12580751)**:* > I can say for my self, a break from the game is needed. Devs need to figure out what kind of game they want this to be. Appeasing the aggro swarm decks because of the profit they bring in just hurts the rest of the community. This is no longer a strategy game. It's clear with the insane buffs to swarm and cards like Needle blast that the devs are more interested in making money than providing the users giving them that money with a well balanced and fair game. They're totally in their right to make a profit from their product but the way they're doing it doesn't sit well with me. > > This game had so much potential to be a stand out mobile game with it's simple idea. You pull the strategy from the game and all you're left with is a pay to win mess. I hope for the sake of the people who properly enjoyed this game that the devs steer this game back in the right direction. I'll check back in some time soon. No wonder why you named yourself angryturtle98. You’re too ***enraged*** and too ***slow*** to even realize what rubbish you’re spouting off about. Aggro swarm decks bring a profit? Have you ever seen what a swarm aggro deck is made of? I’m guessing you haven’t because it’s mainly composed of cheap common cards that anyone can get from buying splendids and progressing in the game. You probably don’t even understand why there’s so many swarm aggro decks. One of those reasons is because compared to the rest of the factions, swarm aggro is by far one of the cheapest and easiest decks to collect cards and upgrade for free to play. And because of that, everything you’ve said on this post is basically invalid. You’re getting angry over nothing. Get over it and move on.

> *Originally posted by **[AzazeL___](/forums/955764/topics/1595248?page=4#12580993)**:* > Lul yeah guess with mine being Lv4 (5strength) deal 2dmge before attacking = 7 damage to face. That's where I'm coming from dno how you're getting potential 9damage, unless you mean GreenProto's, in which case, they could be attacking a 1strength Lv5, or a 3strength Lv4, kinda adding too many irrelevant variables there. > > Yeah coming from someone who uses them regularly, the majority of cases deal 2-7 damage in my games, there's far too many factors in endgame to say they're consistent wincondition, since 6mana does make a huge difference to tempo and if the game is still high HP then I'm going to loose board control because of high mana cost, much like a certain spell.... its all down to optimal mana curve with & against chipdecks. > > Case still stands though, Swarmaggro being the Developer's source of profit while destroying the "Soul" / "Integrity" of the game is some pure trash statement with no decent reasoning. > > > *Originally posted by **[AzazeL___](/forums/955764/topics/1595248?page=4#12580993)**:* > Lul yeah guess with mine being Lv4 (5strength) deal 2dmge before attacking = 7 damage to face. That's where I'm coming from dno how you're getting potential 9damage, unless you mean GreenProto's, in which case, they could be attacking a 1strength Lv5, or a 3strength Lv4, kinda adding too many irrelevant variables there. > > Yeah coming from someone who uses them regularly, the majority of cases deal 2-7 damage in my games, there's far too many factors in endgame to say they're consistent wincondition, since 6mana does make a huge difference to tempo and if the game is still high HP then I'm going to loose board control because of high mana cost, much like a certain spell.... its all down to optimal mana curve with & against chipdecks. > > Case still stands though, Swarmaggro being the Developer's source of profit while destroying the "Soul" / "Integrity" of the game is some pure trash statement with no decent reasoning. > > I'm talking about when have 2 " 1 strength" targets followed a base hit. That the case where can acheive max damage with Vindicators. Is it possible to do that all the time, No, but it has that potential so you can't counted out. The average amount that be achevied is about 2-6 damage on any level of Vincidators. Just stating the max damage they can do. In every other case the damage scales downwards.

Yeah Conflicter I don't think you understand why there's so many swarm aggro decks either. > *Originally posted by **[Conflicter](/forums/955764/topics/1595248?page=4#12581119)**:* > > You probably don’t even understand why there’s so many swarm aggro decks. It’s because compared to the rest of the factions, swarm aggro is by far one of the cheapest and easiest decks to collect cards and upgrade for free to play. This is like saying 1 chapter explains an entire book. It's simply not the entire truth. What sets swarm aggro from Ironclad aggro or Shadow aggro? It doesn't have an abundance of commons that do it's job better than the other factions. A standard swarm aggro will have restless goats, shady ghoul, mischiefs and perhaps Forgotten Souls. Epic, common and 2 rares. A standard iron aggro will have Destructobots, Chaotic Pupil and Overchargers. That's one rare and 2 common. 3 commons if you include Ozone Purifiers. It's frankly senseless to say that swarm aggro is more popular because upgrading is easier. It's popular because it's outright superior to aggro decks of other factions. You can argue that Swarm was designed to be played aggro while Ironclad, less so but that doesn't just feeds into the fact that it makes for a more effective aggro playstyle. Not because it's easier to upgrade lol. I didn't expect this kind of analysis coming from you. How ironic you called the other guy slow and then decided to spout off rubbish yourself. Not saying AngryTurtle was right since I don't agree with what he said but don't provide an explanation simply for the sake of it.

> *Originally posted by **[aspareforyou](/forums/955764/topics/1595248?page=4#12581157)**:* > Yeah Conflicter I don't think you understand why there's so many swarm aggro decks either. > > > *Originally posted by **[Conflicter](/forums/955764/topics/1595248?page=4#12581119)**:* > > > > You probably don’t even understand why there’s so many swarm aggro decks. It’s because compared to the rest of the factions, swarm aggro is by far one of the cheapest and easiest decks to collect cards and upgrade for free to play. > > This is like saying 1 chapter explains an entire book. It's simply not the entire truth. What sets swarm aggro from Ironclad aggro or Shadow aggro? It doesn't have an abundance of commons that do it's job better than the other factions. A standard swarm aggro will have restless goats, shady ghoul, mischiefs and perhaps Forgotten Souls. Epic, common and 2 rares. A standard iron aggro will have Destructobots, Chaotic Pupil and Overchargers. That's one rare and 2 common. 3 commons if you include Ozone Purifiers. It's frankly senseless to say that swarm aggro is more popular because upgrading is easier. It's popular because it's outright superior to aggro decks of other factions. > > You can argue that Swarm was designed to be played aggro while Ironclad, less so but that doesn't just feeds into the fact that it makes for a more effective aggro playstyle. Not because it's easier to upgrade lol. > > I didn't expect this kind of analysis coming from you. How ironic you called the other guy slow and then decided to spout off rubbish yourself. Not saying AngryTurtle was right since I don't agree with what he said but don't provide an explanation simply for the sake of it. > > I was more focused on the fact that Angryturtle believed that aggro decks were p2w, but yes, Swarm’s basically designed for aggro, and also way more effective compared to other faction aggro decks. Any thoughts on which faction could be a somewhat close second to swarm for aggro decks?

> *Originally posted by **[Conflicter](/forums/955764/topics/1595248?page=4#12581222)**:* > I was more focused on the fact that Angryturtle believed that aggro decks were p2w, but yes, Swarm’s basically designed for aggro, and also way more effective compared to other faction aggro decks. Any thoughts on which faction could be a somewhat close second to swarm for aggro decks? Design-wise or via application?

> *Originally posted by **[Hollow__](/forums/955764/topics/1595248?page=4#12581233)**:* > > *Originally posted by **[Conflicter](/forums/955764/topics/1595248?page=4#12581222)**:* > > I was more focused on the fact that Angryturtle believed that aggro decks were p2w, but yes, Swarm’s basically designed for aggro, and also way more effective compared to other faction aggro decks. Any thoughts on which faction could be a somewhat close second to swarm for aggro decks? > > Design-wise or via application? > > Via application.

Personally I would say Shadowfen. There ability to randomly spawn units helps keep board presence for more aggresive plays if they wish. Also their poison/drain abilites creates heavier unit to bust through. I'm probably forgetting another aspect but it's whatever.

> *Originally posted by **[Hollow__](/forums/955764/topics/1595248?page=4#12581569)**:* > Personally I would say Shadowfen. There ability to randomly spawn units helps keep board presence for more aggresive plays if they wish. Also their poison/drain abilites creates heavier unit to bust through. I'm probably forgetting another aspect but it's whatever. I see. Yeah it seems possible for Shadowfen to be able to use aggro tactics, since Azure Hatchers could somewhat be used to lock the base with a bunch of token units. Alright thanks for the insight.

ok????