Hi Guys, I had been playing for roughly 3-4 weeks this game, it's awesome. But I have to admit it's not ejoyable at all when you are f2p - you simply can't compete. p2w focus is ridiculous, as f2p you can never get decent loot/pet/acc, you can never score high enough in pvp etc - no matter how good your personal performance is. For instance, my pvp win rate is something like 98%, I don't use ts dropping *feature* etc - and I still can't score higher than someone with 50% winrate + $10 spent on tickets. Same basically applies to every single aspect of the game: getting nice pets/acc, finding decent fams and gear, leveling up etc. Yesterday I've got in touch with a high-lvl f2p player, his personal performance is great, he had been playing for maybe a year - and still he is not even close to those mommies card abusers. That's sad, really sad. Anniversary event was kinda nice and funny, but it wasn't for f2p either due to the tremendous purchase focus. I understand $$$ players make the game evolve, I'm not asking for lots of stuff for free. But please let f2p players compete p2w at least.

"mommies card abusers?!" what about ballers or highrollers irl that has tons of disposible income or users who deem it as business expense or advertising expense from videos and marketing reasons. not all users are kids and f2p will complain but find one game where people who have advantage in irl won't have advantages in any game either mmo. f2p can grind free gem offers like apps and surveys. they just dont for w.e reasons. sorry its unfair but so is rng. miright?

If you have played long enough, you will realize, it might be bad BUT the f2p life is better than it was months ago. Yes, you can't get into the charts as easily for events anymore, however, like link points out in another post, the best dps accessory atm is now in chests (NOT events) so its obtainable by f2p. Leveling is also way easier compared to before. Meaning the content is all doable for f2p if you are not that concerned about being number 1 or top. I mean those that pay money, some of them use their hard earned money for this. They deserve to be on top. You are doing just fine. Most f2p get to r3 in merely weeks compared to back then where r1 would take a month to get to. Summary: It's friendly enough already. It doesn't need to get friendier.

That's the point isn't it? Those who spend money will have access to more resources in-game and hence are better able to compete. Like. Duh. This is the same case for real life, too, you know. P2W spend money on the game as a kind of investment, so it kinda goes without saying that they expect to / will get some amount of benefit from investing that money into the game. F2P players who do not invest money will then not get the benefits that they would from investing money into the game. The choice to P2W or F2P ultimately falls on the player. Some have more disposable income. Others have less. Obviously some players are in a better position to P2W this game than others simply because of real life. In my case, I am a F2P by choice. I understand what being F2P means, so I'm not angry/disappointed or anything actually. Sorry OP, that's just the way the world works. I would also like to add that there is no content (except rewards from ranking placements like in pvp, etc) that is actually unobtainable by F2P players. F2P can still grind for gems and save them up to use in the gem shop. You just have to be patient (and lucky, I suppose, because RNG)

I'm not crying "oh no life is unfair". My point is there should be some way to compete irrespectively of being p2w or f2p. There should be smart and healthy balance, not just p2w. Not every single aspect of the game needs to be monetized aggressively.

this game is not meant to be completed within a month. you are just an impatient noob maybe ask for advice to good players? step 1 get item find runes (place top 250 pvp to get fragments: i do this every week im f2play) step 2 save gems, honor and pvp coins for 2 weeks. buy a 100% if scroll then get r3 heroic team wait for sunday honor -> energy(world boss) gems ->raid shards pvp coins->energy(world boss) u will get 5-6 legs and 1-2 sets I do agree that anniversary was p2w focused but the most important promotion was the super scroll and u can get 900 gems easily as a f2p in 5-6 days

> *Originally posted by **[h15ter](/forums/962724/topics/925651?page=1#11667976)**:* > I'm not crying "oh no life is unfair". My point is there should be some way to compete irrespectively of being p2w or f2p. There should be smart and healthy balance, not just p2w. Not every single aspect of the game needs to be monetized aggressively. ...You are. You're complaining that : "p2w focus is ridiculous" and "as f2p you can never get decent loot/pet/acc, you can never score high enough in pvp etc - no matter how good your personal performance is" What do you mean by "decent"? Are you saying that F2P players can't get legendaries/sets at all? That's not the case. F2P have access to all content just like P2W. I have seen games where F2P players are completely unable to attain certain end-game content unless they pour in real money - THAT is where P2W focus starts to become a bit unhealthy. In Bit Heroes, as F2P, you can get legendaries/sets, no? You can farm gems, can't you? Gems can get you eggs/boxes from the gem shop, and those eggs/boxes are the same ones that P2W players buy, too. The "smart and healthy" balance you are looking for is one where F2P and P2W players have equal chance of competing for rank rewards, right? Unfortunately, that ideal balance you're looking for in a game can only be found in a game where P2W/F2P doesn't exist. In conclusion, you just want a free game. Game development isn't free. I'm afraid Bit Heroes isn't the kind of game for you, in this case.

Honestly it seems to me guys you don't bother reading, just want to post your oppinion. Before we continue, just post your pvp score for the last week, ts and the amount of gems spent on tickets. Then I'll show you some simple math. Then we continue) PS: **tombi515**, thanks for the advice.

> *Originally posted by **[h15ter](/forums/962724/topics/925651?page=1#11667976)**:* > I'm not crying "oh no life is unfair". My point is there should be some way to compete irrespectively of being p2w or f2p. There should be smart and healthy balance, not just p2w. Not every single aspect of the game needs to be monetized aggressively. The point is why do you want to compete. There's nothing to fight for really. We all end up using each other and having a soft reset on average ts when the next tier of raid epics come out. If you want to compete, f2p can still compete. Look at people like salorino (SirDreko) or me. We both on the dungeon boards and we didn't come in this game with someone to carry us like you guys do now. We still hold our heads high and have friendly relations with various people in the "p2w" guilds and fought our way through months of hard effort. What makes you think you, in a month, can "compete" with those here longer than you or longer AND richer than you? I mean you can't compete because you lack luck, for one, and time.

> *Originally posted by **[h15ter](/forums/962724/topics/925651?page=1#11668662)**:* > Honestly it seems to me guys you don't bother reading, just want to post your oppinion. Before we continue, just post your pvp score for the last week, ts and the amount of gems spent on tickets. Then I'll show you some simple math. Then we continue) > > PS: **tombi515**, thanks for the advice. P2W players gain the advantage that they have because they paid *real money* for it. This is fair. They exchanged money for virtual goods. F2P players do not have such advantages simply because they have not put in the same investment. I'll take this as a signal to just agree to disagree. Clearly, all you want is to reaffirm your own beliefs that the P2W system in this game is unfair to F2P players and hope that P2W is scrapped from the game. I'm here to just say that the devs probably won't. Have a good day.

> *Originally posted by **[willy123096](/forums/962724/topics/925651?page=1#11668990)**:* > The point is why do you want to compete. There's nothing to fight for really. We all end up using each other and having a soft reset on average ts when the next tier of raid epics come out. > If you want to compete, f2p can still compete. Thank you for bringing up this point.

> *Originally posted by **[xyrilyn](/forums/962724/topics/925651?page=1#11669386)**:* > Clearly, all you want is to reaffirm your own beliefs that the P2W system in this game is unfair to F2P players and hope that P2W is scrapped from the game. Where did I say that? Sounds crazy to me. Mate, you really really need to learn listening to others rather than pushing your own oppinion.

> *Originally posted by **[willy123096](/forums/962724/topics/925651?page=1#11668990)**:* > If you want to compete, f2p can still compete. Look at people like salorino (SirDreko) or me. We both on the dungeon boards I still don't see you in top 100 pvp. Why?

They added offer wall to help ftp players. You said you e only played 3-4 weeks... don't expect to rank well until you've put in some time and get geared up. You're new to the game and ignorant and seem to be unable to comprehend or accept what other people are telling you because you're too busy telling them they can't read. Every game with micro transactions has p2w advantages. That just how it is. You can easily rank top 250 in each event every week as f2p, it just takes your time invested to get geared up enough to do it. It's a game guys. Enjoy it for what it is. If you're not enjoying it then don't play it.

@Nubshi, I'm fine with my ranks. More than happy. My point is different. Now $20-30 spent on tickets is always >>>> than your skill, experience and time played. No matter what. I feel it's wrong. There is no difference if you are lvl 300 or lvl 100, I can prove it easily, very simple math. In order to score high, you don't need to play well, don't need to gear up etc - you need to buy 200-300 extra tickets and auto-grind pvp points, that's it. If you don't, you can't. I totally agree that p2w should have advantages, and they do, lots of advantages. But there should be some space for fair competition as well. Is fair competion so bad that you guys all blame me? I'm not a lazy noob or something, I just raise a problem which is totally clear to me: months of f2p are valued less than a few bucks in terms of ranking.

> *Originally posted by **[h15ter](/forums/962724/topics/925651?page=1#11669978)**:* > There is no difference if you are lvl 300 or lvl 100, I can prove it easily, very simple math. In order to score high, you don't need to play well, don't need to gear up etc - you need to buy 200-300 extra tickets and auto-grind pvp points, that's it. If you don't, you can't. Your gear does affect your performance, actually. The higher your ts, the more points you gain in battle ;) This is a very interesting dilemma, and I'm having a bit of trouble understanding exactly where you stand. You see the need for paying advantages, but also wish the game was more accessible to free users. Could you explain this a bit more? How could pvp (or the game in general) be improved to cater towards newer, non-paying users? Would this be feasable without discouraging those that already spend money on the game?

@link_2012, nice question, I have an answer. When it comes to pvp, there should be no tickets for sale, and matchmaking should be rating-based, not ts-based. This works pretty well in every single competitve game I ever played, and it will not discourage paying players in any way: the more you pay, the stronger you are (better gear and fams), so you win stronger opponents and your rating goes up. But still you need to compete (sometimes with f2p players, yes), not just flood it with money and keep grinding 24h on auto... When it comes to other aspects... Today there is stuff f2p can only obtain via offerwall/gem grind. Imo it would be better if f2p could get win stuff in competition. Now they simply can't. There should be a choice: you either just pay and get stuff, or watch those damn offers, or win stuff by simply playing better than others. This game is already p2w a lot, the cash flow is probably solid enough to leave some space for skillful play and competition rather then just monetizing everything. It will simply make the game more entertaining, which is generally good for everyone, including paying players.

> *Originally posted by **[h15ter](/forums/962724/topics/925651?page=1#11670214)**:* > @link_2012, nice question, I have an answer. > When it comes to pvp, there should be no tickets for sale, and matchmaking should be rating-based, not ts-based. This works pretty well in every single competitve game I ever played, and it will not discourage paying players in any way: the more you pay, the stronger you are (better gear and fams), so you win stronger opponents and your rating goes up. But still you need to compete (sometimes with f2p players, yes), not just flood it with money and keep grinding 24h on auto... > When it comes to other aspects... Today there is stuff f2p can only obtain via offerwall/gem grind. Imo it would be better if f2p could get win stuff in competition. Now they simply can't. There should be a choice: you either just pay and get stuff, or watch those damn offers, or win stuff by simply playing better than others. This game is already p2w a lot, the cash flow is probably solid enough to leave some space for skillful play and competition rather then just monetizing everything. It will simply make the game more entertaining, which is generally good for everyone, including paying players. "Today there is stuff f2p can only obtain via offerwall/gem grind. Imo it would be better if f2p could get win stuff in competition.Now they simply can't." Not really true. Use your resources wisely and you can do so. Most p2w aren't those like sss1 and tobey. Take a look at the level charts and you will understand. The chart range from lvl 260 to 500. The highest f2p player is Proteus. He just got barely knocked off the chart for this week. Out of those roughly 100 above him, only a small portion caught up while playing less time due to cash. Not to mention his ts is not exactly average. In fact, he's above average. The typical p2w might only be able to dish out $10-20 a week. And this covers up the time they have been at work/school. They barely get too much ahead. If they decide to eat a week of ramen to get further, why should we say they shouldn't? I mean if you have less time and money, you can't expect to compete. Some people are on here for hours a day. And about your comment about skillful play. This game is not for skillful gamers. If you want something skillful find something that has at least an aiming/dodging feature, rather than have a stupid guy with enormous speed but can't dodge a 100 speed hit for the life of him. This game simply has its bounds for skillful play and should continue to have the bounds or your beloved auto features will be too complicated to implement. Simply put, you want skill, this is not the place. > *Originally posted by **[h15ter](/forums/962724/topics/925651?page=1#11669581)**:* > > *Originally posted by **[willy123096](/forums/962724/topics/925651?page=1#11668990)**:* > > If you want to compete, f2p can still compete. Look at people like salorino (SirDreko) or me. We both on the dungeon boards > > I still don't see you in top 100 pvp. Why? > Because I'm not stupid enough to waste all the resources I saved up just to show you. Not to mention my 1.66M honor in the guild. It's pointless if what is there is not what you want.

> *Originally posted by **[willy123096](/forums/962724/topics/925651?page=1#11670258)**:* > > *Originally posted by **[h15ter](/forums/962724/topics/925651?page=1#11670214)**:* > > I still don't see you in top 100 pvp. Why? > > > > Because I'm not stupid enough to waste all the resources I saved up just to show you. Not to mention my 1.66M honor in the guild. It's pointless if what is there is not what you want. > I'd say it's because you can do it 2-3 times, then no more. And waste all your resources gathered in months, including 1.66M guild points ($60-70 worth?). Please don't feel offended, it's just math.

No duh? You seem quite entitled tbh. Also being 3-4 weeks into this game means that pvp does not even matter for you. The points you receive scale according to your total stats, but it seems like you didn't even realize that. So what if your win rate is 98%? You're a new player facing other new players. Once you get a few t6 legs it's easy to break top 500 week after week. PVP is such a small part of this game anyway, especially when you're below raid 3. Also, "never get decent loot/pet/acc" is simply false. It just takes you longer. Bit Heroes is great because it isn't necessary to pay money to get better items, it just speeds up the process. Quit whining.

> *Originally posted by **[Salasis](/forums/962724/topics/925651?page=1#11670740)**:* > No duh? You seem quite entitled tbh. Also being 3-4 weeks into this game means that pvp does not even matter for you. The points you receive scale according to your total stats, but it seems like you didn't even realize that. So what if your win rate is 98%? You're a new player facing other new players. Once you get a few t6 legs it's easy to break top 500 week after week. PVP is such a small part of this game anyway, especially when you're below raid 3. Well, my pvp rank is ~1000, I have a few t6 legs and r3, so if you want to taunt a newbie, you need to try harder. When it comes to points scaling with ts, there is such a thing called "extrapolation". You don't need to be at lvl 300 to understand what it is. It's very easy to extrapolate from 1000 ts where I am now to 1700 ts where top players are. And I can tell you my arrogant friend, that result of such extrapolation is disappointing: $20-30 is still over all your levels and gear when it comes to pvp rankings. > *Originally posted by **[Salasis](/forums/962724/topics/925651?page=1#11670740)**:* > Bit Heroes is great because it isn't necessary to pay money to get better items, it just speeds up the process. Quit whining. Yeah, if there was a road to the Moon, you could just walk there, rocket only speeds up the process. :) Honestly I see no problem to pay money, I see a problem when a few bucks matter more than months of someone's efforts. But ok guys, if you all like how it goes, I'll "quit whining". I'll simply pay rather than waste months hitting the wall, especially if noone else sees dat wall.

> *Originally posted by **[h15ter](/forums/962724/topics/925651?page=1#11669978)**:* > @Nubshi, I'm fine with my ranks. More than happy. My point is different. Now $20-30 spent on tickets is always >>>> than your skill, experience and time played. No matter what. I feel it's wrong. > **There is no difference if you are lvl 300 or lvl 100**, I can prove it easily, very simple math. **In order to score high, you don't need to play well, don't need to gear up etc - you need to buy 200-300 extra tickets and auto-grind pvp points, that's it. If you don't, you can't.** Says the guy that only spent 4 weeks on a game and is already whining about how jealous he is of players that stay on the top 100 pvp ranks. Fun Fact:- The word "oppinion" is spelt "opinion". Seriously though. You're still a nub. P2P players are higher than you because they've played longer than you. Deal with it.

Let's do some math. PvP reward for ts1750 player is ~250pts per ticket. So with no investments he can score 7 x 36 x 250 = 63k per week, which is somewhere at the bottom of top 100 table usually. PvP reward for a *nub* like me is ~180pts per ticket. So, with no investments I can score 7 x 36 x 180 = 45k. Now lets say *nub* spends just $20 on tickets: $20 > 120 tickets, so I'd score (7x36+120)x180=67k. Well, it appears that *nub* with $20 is way bigger in terms of pvp than f2p profi with 1750ts (not sure if there are any so high honestly). That's a very simple math, very visual. $20 is my lunch. My lunch wins pvp. Isn't it kinda wrong?)

@ItsThix, the fact that I've misspelled word "opinion" is not funny. I'm not a native English speaker, it's ok to do mistakes sometimes. The fact that instead of real arguments on subject you just say "nub", "whining", "jealous" and focus on typo is *certainly funny*.

h15ter, if you've only played for 3-4 weeks you are still a newbie. This game is literally based on time-based currency that can be bypassed with gems, so of course p2w players will have significant advantage... that's literally the whole point of the game. You are not supposed to be able to easily compete with p2w-ers unless you are p2w yourself. No matter how you keep trying to dress it up, you have been doing nothing but whining and complaining this whole post. If you do not like the setup of the game, go play a different game.