game is too based on weapon rolls, if you get a nice RARE golden arrow you get a nice weapon and the dungeon and dragon become doable, most of the time you're stuck with +3 on everything which is not enough unless you get super lucky. Lame that the dungeon is always the same, considering the game has some paid content. Until loot is more fair I will leave 1/5 stars, not fun at all playing a game with a broken loot system

I disagree. I think the loot system is fine. If there was at least +1 for every find, it'd be way too easy. You are supposed to play tactically and not just rush everything with overpowered gear. You can often sneak into the dragon lair and steal a good item (7+) there. And there are good items (7+, one of each) in the Ruins from the special bosses. Of course, it might be hard to get there when you are always unlucky before, but it's rare that you really lose a game if you play it well.

Other games with loot have mechanics to balance out bad luck, but guaranteeing an upgrade on every single piece is not one of them. And "most of the time you're stuck with +3 on everything" is simply not true mathematically, even if you only consider the 9 pickups available in the caverns and mines. Granted, not all equipment are equal especially if you're starting out, so finding strategies for them is part of the game. Once you take into account fame unlocks, a +1 on every single pickup would completely negate the significance of loot by always giving you max equipment before the end.

Having a guarantee would definitely make it too powerful every time you open up a chest, however I feel that each time you open a sword, bow or shield of the SAME level, perhaps you could get a level up. That way, the higher the level the equipment, the harder it wil be to get a level up. So if it is a +3 sword and you end up finding three more +3 swords, you will still have a +4 sword in the end, instead of being stuck with a +3.

That would be pretty rare. You don't usually roll the same number so many times in a single run. Also, the artifact items guarantee at least +7, making such a system unnecessary.

Use your consumables. They are far more powerful than any sword/bow/shield you can find. Leap is one of the most common and useful repositioning option. Use it to move away from taking 3-4 attacks that round. It allows an attack after, so is pure goodness. Use that bow attack to hope to clear out a little more before they close in again. Heal Pots are literally life savers. Husband them for Dragon fights and when the RNG god is on vacation. Consider avoiding rooms with Heal Pots if you are down to 0 to enjoy a +2 to every roll you make (not recommended if you down to your last HP). Vanish is useful to sneak into and steal items from rooms with otherwise insurmountable/risky battle. Preferably, have 2 of them in really risky rooms, just in case a bad roll reveals your presense. Flame scrolls are the best. It has so many functions it's better than a Heal Pot, IMHO. Burn any floating enemy. Place near Spores to clear rooms without rolling a die. Block enemy from coming close as a Human Swordsman so you can to one-on-one with a monster. If Dragons (or large monster) seal of their retreat to get Press bonus. Seal yourself into a corner as the Elf Huntress. Shoot over the fire to get attack bonus. The Dwarf Brawler has less use with it since he likes the attention of as many mauling monsters as possible, but it still allows him to take out Spores without bum Charging them... so yeah. That. These items have helped clear rooms with 6 Dragons far more frequently and consistently than any 7+ or 9+ equipment has.

Consumables eventually do run out, especially as the number of dragons you need to fight constantly increases. By the time you reach 20+ dragons, I am fairly certain that you will have almost no consumables left. This is a long read, but I I kept count of the last six dungeons which I had done and the rate of equipment which appeared. The stats in () is what the equipment would be if my plan was implemented. **Dungeon 1** +4 sword +3 bow +4 sword (+5 sword) +3 shield +2 shield +3 sword +4 bow +5 sword (+6 sword) +6 bow +6 shield +6 bow (+7 bow) +8 bow +7 sword +7 shield +6 sword +7 shield (+8 shield) +7 sword, +8 bow, +7 shield vs +7 sword, +8 bow, (+8 shield) In the end, you get a slightly better shield, but during the journey, you also get three more additional upgrades to your equipment. **Dungeon 2** +2 bow +2 bow (+3 bow) +3 shield +2 sword +4 sword +3 bow (+4 bow) +4 shield +6 shield +5 sword +7 sword +6 sword +6 shield (+7 shield) +6 bow +7 bow +9 shield +8 sword +8 sword +7 sword +8 sword, +7 bow, +9 shield vs (+9 sword), +7 bow, + 9 shield For this one, you get a +9 sword by the time you face the dragons instead of a +8, but in the earlier part of the journey, you can end up with a +4 bow for some time instead of being stuck with +2 and +3 for a while. **Dungeon 3** +5 bow +3 sword +4 sword +3 shield +3 bow +4 sword (+5 sword) +4 shield +5 sword (+6 sword) +3 bow +6 sword (+7 sword) +7 sword (+8 sword) +8 sword (+9 sword) +8 shield +9 sword +7 bow +8 bow +6 bow +9 sword, +8 bow, +8 shield There's no actual difference in equpment in the end, but during the path to the dungeon, there were multiple upgrades to the sword quality which I feel is useful. **Dungeon 4** +4 sword +1 shield (+2 shield) +2 bow +4 bow +5 sword +6 shield +3 bow +5 bow +4 shield +4 shield +5 shield +9 shield +7 sword +9 bow +7 sword (+8 sword) +7 sword, +9 bow, +9 shield vs (+8 sword), +9 bow, +9 shield Two +7 swords should make a +8 sword! **Dungeon 5** +3 bow +3 bow (+4 bow) +1 shield (+2 shield) +2 sword +4 shield +4 sword +3 bow (+4 bow) +4 sword (+5 sword) +6 sword +5 bow +7 sword +5 shield +8 bow +9 shield +7 sword (+8 sword) +8 bow (+9 bow) +8 sword (+9 sword) +8 sword, +8 bow, +9 shield vs (+9 sword), (+9 bow), +9 shield By the time you face the dragons, this would have been the perfect 9/9/9 setup if the upgrades could have been implemented. Granted, it wasn't against 20+ dragons yet, but from what I had heard, every little bit helps since these are permanent upgrades as compared to the one-use scrolls. **Dungeon 6** +3 sword +3 sword (+4 sword) +2 shield +2 bow +4 bow +6 sword +5 bow +7 bow +8 sword +6 sword +7 bow (+8 bow) +9 shield +6 sword +3 sword +8 sword, +7 bow, +9 shield vs +8 sword, (+8 bow), +9 shield

how about increasing the odds of getting +8 and +9 the further you are from the lair entrance?

that way players who have to kil dozens of dragons don't feel like they're hopeless if they still have +7 gear at the end of the dungeon.

> *Originally posted by **[Tyca](/forums/979845/topics/1792446?page=1#13008645)**:* > This is a long read Not if you arrange the information horizontally! **Dungeon 1** ```` 4 4  3 5    7 6  = +7 sword   5    6         (2 upgrades)  3    4 6 68     = +8 bow           7      (1 upgrade)    32    6   7 7 = +7 shield / +8 upgraded                8 (1 upgrade) ```` Anyway, from your small sample of statistics it seems that about 10–30% of loot would be upgraded, or effectively a +0.2 average increase in item level. I find the variability in this percentage rather large, so I can't say for sure that I'd appreciate that mechanic if it were added. -------- Also, I have a slight variation on the very first suggestion along the lines of "break the game by adding 1": let the player choose, at any point in the game, to upgrade one piece of equipment by one point, once per 10 dragons in the lair.

> *Originally posted by **[Tyca](/forums/979845/topics/1792446?page=1#13008645)**:* > Consumables eventually do run out, especially as the number of dragons you need to fight constantly increases. By the time you reach 20+ dragons, I am fairly certain that you will have almost no consumables left. Not entirely accurate, it really depends on which class you like to use to fight dragons. Human burns through hastes (and leaps if you're unlucky with fleeing dragons) very quickly, but dwarf doesn't since he has charge against fleeing dragons and he relies primarily on hunkering and counterattacking to deal damage to dragons before they flee. I honestly don't know the strategy for elf, but I know some people fight dragons primarily with elf. (Alto2 for example has a lvl 14 elf as highest level in the party) Those people are likely to be very good at making their flame scrolls last a long time. Also, how fast you burn through potions depends on what sheild you have going into the fight. Sometimes when I have a +9 shield and +8 or +9 sword, it would only take about 5-6 potions to kill 20 dragons given that my dwarf isn't rolling poorly that day. Now compare that to having to use a +7 shield... a couple games ago when I was doing campaign I had to fight 10 black dragons going in with +9 sword and +7 shield, I had 8 potions, but my dwarf had a lot of trouble blocking early on so I had to switch to human to finish off the fight, I had 19 haste scrolls going in so I didn't need to worry much about that, but I was worried that my human would burn through potions too quickly. the strategy with human is usually to haste and whack the dragons with a sword until you run out of luck rather than hunkering, with a +7 shield, I assumed that human would block very little if at all. I was right, it took 7 potions to kill all 10 dragons that time.

I think the simplest way to safeguard against being doomed by only getting +7 gear out of a run. (I had this a few times and I managed to pull through very few of those times) is to give dragonslayers a passive +1 to all attack and defence rolls. Most of the time, I don't think that the small bonus suggested would be enough to make any character too broken, The only situation in which I think it would be a bit overpowered is when adrenaline kicks in when the player is about to die and the player has a +9 shield already. in those cases, the total blocking bonus after hunkering would be 16. Such a perk would also incentivise getting to the dragonslayer rank, and reward those who've worked hard to get there.

> *Originally posted by **[openrange](/forums/979845/topics/1792446?page=1#13009206)**:* > Not entirely accurate, it really depends on which class you like to use to fight dragons. Human burns through hastes (and leaps if you're unlucky with fleeing dragons) very quickly... I'll have to say though, that if you're using Leap to chase Dragons instead of Flame to prevent them from fleeing, then you're not quite using the Human Swordsman properly (because you're not optimizing his bonus to attack from Press). Of course, if you're making do because of lack of consumables, then that's really just working with what you got.