We're considering a change which would allow you to use the Undo Turn ability (or something very similar) much more often - like a few times per game per hero. But we only want to do that if you think the Undo Turn feature is a positive part of the game and that the ability to do it more often would be a good change. One might argue that Undo Turn makes for an interesting decision, while reducing the frustration of the roller or mis-clicking. Or one might think that it breaks the game's immersion and feels like cheating. What do you all think?

On one hand, I feel that I really do misclick a lot (perhaps more than once per game on average), especially when the games run over half an hour and fatigue sets in. On the other, most of my consequential mistakes in the dungeon are due to being too eager to clear a room without considering all possible strategies. And then there's those weak monsters (basically glass cannons) which refuse to die and I keep thinking "oh the focus is at +2 already surely this time will work". While it would be nice to have a big Undo Room option (or a large stack of Undo Turns) to handle massive stupidity, I feel that it's not necessary in this style of game. A more difficult goal would be to make Undo smarter. Of course I didn't want my human to fire a bow next to two dragons, or walk directly into a reaper's attack, or enter the tunnels without picking up any equipment, or guard in front of a green slime. All of these are plausible misclicks that should be automatically undoable (maybe, but they're not always so obvious).

Personally, I have never used the Undo button, with exception for giving a trial upon learning of the feature (hey, it's a chance to do something stupid). Being a Rogue-like, my mindset was simply to accept whatever luckless rolls and stupid decisions made. In many cases, I would say, I might have considered Undo, if I remembered the feature at all. That said, I have less issues with mis-clicks as others seem to have. Maybe I am more careful, or maybe I just know to stop and resume later if needed. Maybe I just don't take on over a dozen dragons, To the question: I think having the feature is perfectly fine - it can be an option for the player to use, or not, at their own descretion. If you want to use it, it's there. If you want a "hardcore mode", then don't. Your choice. Just let everyone know that there will be no markers nor penalty if you choose to use it, nor bonus nor indicators if you don't. This way, it is fair game to everyone and doesn't create a situation where players feel like they get penalised, that should not, or are discouraged to, use a feature built into the game. It should remain just another option like any other. Extending its use to more than once per game is fine, so long as it does not reach the point of being able to undo every other turn. I don't know what you may have in mind. Maybe one per hero and a flat one shared. 4 undo in a game of hundreds of moves hardly allows for any form of "save scrumming" - which is probably what everyone would allude to with the undo feature. Or maybe grant the undo on "death". As a very limited way the player has a second chance to recover from a bad roll by choosing a different action. I will not call it breaking immersion, since it's optional. The player gets to choose to eschew it if they want that immersion. I will not call it cheating. It is a built in option that everyone knows about, and allowed to use. As mentioned before, granted in limited numbers it can be advantageous to use, but proably not too game breaking. A proper use of a scroll is arguably a potent thing too. More importantly, I think there should be no way to identify if it is used in any game - it is just an option like choosing to use Leap or Flame; albiet an arugably more powerful one. Edit: Typing and spellng errors.

I am a little torn here. I don't really have many accidental misclicks, but there are situations where a single bad roll becomes very costly and frustrating, then I usually use Undo if it's still available. That said, even then I feel like I am cheating in a way. Overall I think I wouldn't mind a few Undos more, but too many would feel too much like cheating. And I don't mean that in a competitive sense that I think others are cheating, but that I feel like cheating myself. (I don't think I have shift244's self-control to simply not use the Undos if they are available.) shift244's idea about one undo per hero plus one flat sounds reasonable. Maybe even one Multi-Turn-Undo (all turns since last entering the room) could be interesting. For when a whole room somehow gets really messed up. Or to just try out some new tactics (or to test a bug) without having to forfeit too much if it doesn't work out.

I feel like the comments below: > *Originally posted by **[shift244](/forums/979845/topics/1803009?page=1#13033980)**:* > Personally, I have never used the Undo button, with exception for giving a trial upon learning of the feature (hey, it's a chance to do something stupid). [skipped] > That said, I have less issues with mis-clicks as others seem to have. > *Originally posted by **[unekdoud](/forums/979845/topics/1803009?page=1#13033364)**:* > While it would be nice to have a big Undo Room option (or a large stack of Undo Turns) to handle massive stupidity, I feel that it's not necessary in this style of game. > Foundamentally being able to just do undo one action seems to have little use with my play style - either things are going well (no misclick) or they have gone so badly (poor RNG, massive stupidity in handling a room) that undoing one action will have no impact

I know I'm late to this, but it's good reading, so... > *Originally posted by **[shift244](/forums/979845/topics/1803009?page=1#13033980)**:* >... > To the question: I think having the feature is perfectly fine - it can be an option for the player to use, or not, at their own descretion. If you want to use it, it's there. If you want a "hardcore mode", then don't. Your choice. Just let everyone know that there will be no markers nor penalty if you choose to use it, nor bonus nor indicators if you don't. This way, it is fair game to everyone and doesn't create a situation where players feel like they get penalised, that should not, or are discouraged to, use a feature built into the game. It should remain just another option like any other. > ... Great post. I agree with pretty much all of this. The rare time(s) I misclick, I tell myself my character was panicked or something. Frustrating, but oh well. I certainly focus more after that, or take a break. Also, from the game's stance of keeping players, I'm sure you are ultimately looking to keep players who may leave a game they're otherwise enjoying because of the frustration of low rolls as the game progresses. Maybe have an NPC show up very early to let the players sample the "Undo" feature, so players that might tap out early know they can work toward that skill. I think most people know what they're getting into with this, but maybe that will keep some early detractors hanging in there, much like having the other Heroes "visit" early on. Again, I know it's late, but an alternative to the 1 per Hero per Game idea above, since not all players will have all three Heroes: 1 Undo per Game, per Mines. 1 Undo per Game, per Ruins. 1 Undo per Game, per Lair. 1 Room Reset per Game (maybe exclude Lair on this one). I think it's great as is, but there are some thoughts... :D Edit to add: I agree with shift244's ENTIRE post. I just didn't want to spam the board quoting shift's entire post ;)

In my opinion the undo function is pretty much a luxury: It's not really necessary but can help massively in an exceptional bad situation. Once some Ghouls ganged up on me, so I chose to guard. I got some bad luck and 1 Ghoul was able to stun me, that started a chain of stuns, damage and quaffed heal potions. With 1-2 potions left finally all Ghouls failed to stun me and when I used the undo, it took me back all over to the round I got my first stun, as I didn't have any turns in between (stun skips your whole turn). That was a pretty extreme situation, but without a doubt the undo saved that game from an early unfortunate end. Most of the time I end the game with the undo still available, always keeping it for a really bad situation. E.g. I feel much better, when the Reaper shows up and I still could use the undo. It feels a bit strange, that you can't undo a turn that led to your death, as this would be ofc the best situation to use it. I think it wouldn't hurt to let the player undo such a fatal turn. I'm not sure about more than 1 undo, doesn't seem necessary to me. It should indeed be limited in some way, and I think trinkets could be a solution to this: Make the first undo free, but every undo after the first consumes 5 trinkets (just a random number). This could give an additional layer for your playstyle and could also make high numbers of trinkets more useful and versatile.

Once per game is enough for me. I don't use it to try to correct bad rolls, I only use it when I accidentally click on the wrong spot.

Once per game is enough. I honestly forget about using it in a strategic way, but I do misclick and do a guard instead of leaving the dungeon room.