After few 24hr+- rebirths, my main goals now are: 1) get bosses = increase AP gain via achievements 2) put XP in e/m = faster progress , achievements (not sure how many items it's worth to hoard for climbing the achievement walls) 3) put PP in generic1 , then First harvest => I want your seeds => Quicker Power Beta (375 PP total... not sure if this is even possible, I get 5 PP a day ??) 4) gain levels in 1st and 3rd beard (+A/D , +Number) which seem to help the best with challenges 5) maxing Pomme (now L8), then FoA(L4) and FoPwB(L3) - both eating since start So far, I can progress about +7 bosses per rebirth in average (1 beard , 2 diggers, 3 accessories, Energy 155 6.2M 310 Magic 53 2.1M 104 ). Rebirth plan: ( using Beanie, Gaudy Shirt, rest Mega) 60-90min : boosting TimeMachine (WayTooE+M, Spooky Amulet) 90-120min: boosting Wandooz + ATrain P/T to kill UUG (WayTooM, Tie, Utility) 120-180min: boosting TimeMachineE + augmenting, boosting Counterfiet + Spag. spells (WayTooE+M, Spooky Amulet) rest of rebirth: boosting NGU - both diggers L10 + Tie + Utility + WayTooMag or Ene (depends on boosting active beard) optional augment + boosting IronPill finish: boosting Number spell , augment+wandooz if reasonable to get last boss

Almost at L10 Pomme now. So far no seed perks (don't have maxed generic1s) - which fruit to level up next, FoA ? Also - at this moment (24hr rebirths, manualing UUG) - what is expected gain from Iron Pill. I invest around 1e9 blood, making 160-200 stats per pill. Is that too low? For beards - I've leveled FuManchu L328 perm , RevHitter L311 perm. Is it more beneficial to do at least one 24hr run for each beard, rather than focusing on 1-2 beards only?

> *Originally posted by **[armzzz](/forums/984525/topics/1831965?page=2#13143982)**:* > Almost at L10 Pomme now. So far no seed perks (don't have maxed generic1s) - which fruit to level up next, FoA ? There are two approaches (when you finished the pommegranate at least), each with pros and cons. One is to focus on one fruit at a time, selecting a fruit that you need at the time like adventure or luck first. It allows you to quickly start gaining more for that particular bonus. The other is to just pick whatever fruit upgrade is the cheapest when you have seeds, levelling multiple fruits at once. It allows you to start gaining bonuses for multiple aspects at once at a slower rate instead. > Also - at this moment (24hr rebirths, manualing UUG) - what is expected gain from Iron Pill. I invest around 1e9 blood, making 160-200 stats per pill. Is that too low? Your gains from iron pills are more or less limited by the highest ritual you can realistically cap, so as you continue to get more magic stats (and get better gear as well) you will be able to cap more rituals, greatly increasing what you can gain from iron pills. Don't expect miracles though, iron pills are never going to give you massive amounts of adventure stats each time compared to your equipment, but those small-ish bonuses do help, and they also boost your fruit of adventure's gains. > For beards - I've leveled FuManchu L328 perm , RevHitter L311 perm. > Is it more beneficial to do at least one 24hr run for each beard, rather than focusing on 1-2 beards only? One thing you could be aiming for initially would be getting 1,000 permanent levels on each beard (all beards except fu manchu have diminishing returns after 1,000 levels). 1,000 permanent levels in BEARd means +100% (doubling) your adventure stats, +10% NGU speed for beard cage, +50% drop chance for neckbeard, +100% wandoos speed for ladyBeard and +1,000% (x11) NUMBER for reverse hitler. Because all of those multiply the other bonuses of their category they are all giving massive increases until level 1,000.

> *Originally posted by **[slay0mithos](/forums/984525/topics/1831965?page=2#13143997)**:* > Your gains from iron pills are more or less limited by the highest ritual you can realistically cap, so as you continue to get more magic stats (and get better gear as well) you will be able to cap more rituals, greatly increasing what you can gain from iron pills. > Don't expect miracles though, iron pills are never going to give you massive amounts of adventure stats each time compared to your equipment, but those small-ish bonuses do help, and they also boost your fruit of adventure's gains. Actually I do not cap any ritual - I just use spare magic when boosting Wandooz with +wandooz acc. , or running augments + blood before feeding pit with +mP acc. At this moment I can do few quick e19(~40sec)/e21(~2min) gold rituals to get ~1e9 blood for the pill (also boosting spag./counterf. initially with 1e9 blood). Majority of the rebirth, I put all magic into NGU leveling, using ngu+ speed acc. How does using iron pill boost my gains from FoA ?

The gains from fruit of adventure are based in part on "base toughness" from the exp screen (at power 0.2 specifically) and iron pills directly add what you gain from it to those "base" adventure stats in the exp screen. For blood magic, you can do like you are doing but you can also figure out the rituals you can cap with ony a tiny portion of your magic cap (so that it doesn't really impact NGU levelling). They will barely cost any gold to maintain for the whole rebirth unless you skimp on levelling the time machine too much (which you clearly are not since you spend over a full hour levelling it from what you said in your earlier post) and it will bring you a pretty nice amount of blood to spend on iron pill or other spells.

Interesting thing - trying out NGU beard for the first time, and my L96 active beard gives me 100.96% bonus, while in tooltip it says the L67 permanent I will provide 101.36% bonus. In the other beards, active bonus was always bigger than passive, even on same levels. Why not here?

You will notice that ladyBeard (the wandoos beard) and the golden beard (time machine GPS beard) also have this where until level 1000 permanent levels give you more than temporary levels (twice as much for ladyBeard and beard cage and 2.5 times for the golden beard). There is also the neckbeard (drop chance beard) that gives the same bonus per level until level 1000. My guess is that those are intended to push you towards getting levels for the long term, also meaning that they fall off in the very long rebirths that some people like to do (days, sometimes weeks).

Is it possible to reach boss 301 on normal diff. with 'regular' 24hr rebirths? I am currently on boss 152 (number 1.4e104 -> ~3e104) , and the progress is slowing down to 1 boss per rebirths, with significant investment in Wandooz / augs. It still seems worth it, for achievements and timeMachine GPS, just wonder how far can I get.

It's possible, there's many way to increase atk/def and numbers, you just have to make use of them.

I've been advancing in adventure mode even when I thought I was approaching a wall (which has only fed into my procrastination of getting challenges done (Beast v1 is on autokill and I've still not done anything more than just a single run of the Basic Challenge, I've been meaning to take a break and get back to those since... I don't know, somewhere between Uug and Walderp? But the approaching walls keep ending up as non-issues)) and 24h runs have been seeing a continuous climb through the bosses all along the way. My current highest boss kill (until the end of this current rebirth, probably) is 256. I could be mistaken, but I thought it felt like for a while after I switched from wandoos 98 to wandoos meh that I had a good streak of pushing past 5 or so bosses per rebirth. It probably does tend more towards 1 per rebirth when you haven't recently made a big change like that though... I don't know, I'll see whether this run ends up only pushing to 257 or if I can take down 258 as well. I haven't really been paying attention to just how many I've been climbing past each time.

I've got Wandooz 98 100+12 level atm. When you want to switch to Meh, do you need to re-level them? lso, what was the approx. E/M value when you switched to Meh? Regarding Adv-mode , without troll chal. you have L10 max FoA correct? How do you advance stats to kill adventure - with EXP? For Iron Pills, do you cap lower rituals, or spend X% of time on higher rituals?

Yeah, switching wandoos versions resets the levels on it (it might need the one hour startup time as well? I forget), so it's probably better to do at the start of a rebirth before you've done anything with wandoos in that rebirth anyway. I keep forgetting the guideline I had been told around the time I switched to meh... I think it's that capping the leveling speeds in a higher version of wandoos will require 1000x as much energy and magic compared to the version before it. So along with considering that bit of information you'd also consider how much that will take away from what you're currently putting into other features. I might not have looked into that last part too much when I did it though. (And I don't remember any numbers for when that was.) At the moment I'm 18.5 hours into this rebirth and wandoos meh caps with around 60k or so energy and magic. So if the 1000x thing is correct, if I were to start a run with wandoos xl then by this same point in that run wandoos xl might be requiring something more like 60M energy and magic. (Granted, it'd need some time getting the advanced training levels to speed up wandoos to that point.) After all bonuses are accounted for my total caps right now are 2.095B energy and 1.425B magic. 60M magic out of 1.425B is only 4.21% of my magic. 60M energy out of 2.095B is only 2.86% of my energy. That actually has me wondering if it's time for me to move up again. I think I've seen people say not to switch to xl until after making a bit of progess in evil mode though, so maybe there's some other guideline I haven't seen mentioned yet. Like... I don't know... Getting those both below 1%? We'll see if slay or someone else chimes in on that point. I've got base adventure stats at amounts that have been remarked by more advanced players as being strangely high for where I'm at in the game, but I don't think I've spent much xp on them. I think it's mostly been from Iron Pill and Fruit of Adventure. (And yeah, without that challenge it's a tier 10 cap on fruits.) For the blood magic, I've generally kept as much capped as I reasonably could. As my magic stats have increased that has expanded from being able to keep maybe just the first 5 rituals capped (and having a little extra on the 6th and 7th rituals) to eventually regularly keeping the first 7 rituals all capped. Currently the 7th ritual caps with about 471M magic on it. (8th ritual is locked until one of the troll challenge runs.) Lately I've also been getting enough GPS going to get the blood digger running, so that gets even more out of the rituals. I don't know if I do things in any kind of efficient way, but lately I tend to just have it always auto-casting the number, drop chance, and GPS boosting spells and I try to remember to turn them off an hour or two before Iron Pill comes off cooldown and then I cast that for however many thousands of adventure stats (like 2k or 3k range, usually, I think). EDIT: side note: At this point in this run it looks like I'll only need to get about 2-3 times stronger in the next 5 hours to take down boss 258 (which will be two bosses climbed over the previous rebirth) before I hit 24 hours into this rebirth. UPDATE (about 3 hours later): Right at the 22 hour mark, I took down boss 258.

Interesting - with total 1.47e7 magic, I can still only cap upto 3rd ritual (1st 73k , 2nd 738k , 3rd 7.3e6). So I mostly end up dumping all magic into 6th or 7th ritual, to get 1-2e9 blood in ~10 minutes (150-220 stats from Iron Pill). Probably because I still don't have maxed generic1 mPow perk (and gen1 eBar , those 2 are the last to max before I move onto seed perks).

Yeah, you'll see those numbers drop drastically as you get more powerful. Like with my 7th ritual capped at 471 million (4.71e8), the 1st ritual is capped at a mere 471 (4.71e2). With my current gear and bonuses, I'm at.... about 218k total magic power. side note: went to bed before I could rebirth, so my current rebirth is at 1d6h right now... and I just took down boss 259 before I rebirthed. EDIT: I'm trying wandoos xl in my current run. Maybe I started this run hitting the relevant advanced training levels a little harder than I usually do or something, but at 5.5 hours into the run it's capping with about 36 million energy and magic. No, wait, 34 million after I bumped the wandoos digger's active level up to 85. Either way, that's a bit better than the 60M I was figuring based on where meh was capping when I looked at it yesterday. UPDATE: 10.5 hours into this rebirth and I've already knocked out boss 260. UPDATE: 12.5 hours in, boss 261 is beat as well. They just keep falling down, here. UPDATE: 17.5 hours in, and there goes boss 262. UPDATE: 21 hours, and 263 is down. UPDATE: Just before rebirthing at 25 hours, 264 goes down. I'm going to stop keeping track like this now, though.

Completed UUG set - so now's time to invest those 20k EXP. What should I buy - 3rd digger slot, 4th acc slot, or 2nd beard slot? So far I'm inclined to get extra beard slot - it will allow me to switch from Gaudy chest to Mega chest, and extra progress in beard seems more important than acc/digger slot. But it's 50k EXP, so I'll bite my toes off by the time I get from 20k to 50k without using those juicy EXP.

Beard slots are slightly better than digger or accessory slots because it lets you have multiple bonuses active (and growing) at the same time but if you really can't wait the other two are pretty nice to get anyway.

Yeah, those are all nice things in there own way.... But with accessory slots or digger slots it's more of a convenience thing to be able to have more bonuses active at once (and feeling less of a need to swap out the active bonuses to suit different situations) while actually growing those bonuses is independant from the number of slots you can use. And with beard slots the number of slots you can use is related to how the bonuses grow stronger.

I'd say beard slot > acc slot > digger slot The 2nd beard slot is one of the most helpful because then you can get perm levels in 2 beards at once (typically adv stats and drop chance). Acc slot would be useful so you can have additional specials and adv stats. But to some extent you can make up for it by swapping out accs or having more adv stats through other features (adv training, ngus, beards). 3rd digger slot is obviously nice since you can have extra stuff running and don't need to switch diggers, but digger use does get more limited in terms of level as you get more (due to gps drain).

So I got the 2nd beard and 4th accessory slot now. This was quicker than expected. Guess I can go for the 3rd digger and 2nd daycare slots now. Otherwise, I'm slowly leveling fruits (10, 10, 10, 4, 10, 4, 4, 4 - could unlock AP / Number fruits, but as they would still consume huge portion of my E/M, I want to at least get the rest to L5 before moving to those 2 fruits). Gen1 E/M perks are almost done, I have left 17/50 on eBars. Should I go first after the seed perks (so far have only crappy perk)?

3rd digger + 2nd daycare slot done, now slowly crawling to unlock auto-activator for PowerBeta fruit. No luck with UUGs ultra-drop - just what kind of drop chance does one have to get to have even slight shot on that one? (though now as I autokill UUG, my chances to wear drop items before kill got worse - but XP/AP improved so worth it I guess). . . In other news, just found out the Fruit of Numbers is locked behind Troll Challenge #5. And golden beard behind Troll Challenge #7. Seems game is forcing me to go back and do these. Anyone can recommend stats / perks I should get before trying troll challenges? Also - how much content is locked behind challenges? Is there any clear list of that?

For the troll challenge you want energy and magic bars and attack/defense bonuses. The reason is that unlike most challenges where you can take your time if you don't like fast rebirths, the troll challenge really punishes longer rebirths (when a big troll disables NGU or beards until rebirth, your rebirth NUMBER falls drastically for example). So you want to create your energy and magic really fast and cram as much as you can in the first 3 minutes (or 5 if you really can't handle 3 minutes). The later clears might be a bit hard to get early on but anything past the 4th clear isn't going to bring you all that much until you can feasibly clear them anyway. For example, the fruit of number is unlocked by the 5th clear, but you will most likely take quite a while taking your earlier fruits from rank 10 to rank 24. The golden beard might sound nice as well, but pretty much all of the other beards have a more direct impact on your progression so it isn't all that helpful to have it until you have all 7 beard slots. To know what is locked behind challenges, you can just look at the rewards for each challenge or use the wiki page for it: https://ngu-idle.fandom.com/wiki/Challenges

I keep procrastinating so much about actually doing any more challenge runs since that one run of the Basic Challenge that I did a while ago, but talk like this: > *Originally posted by **[slay0mithos](/forums/984525/topics/1831965?page=2#13157583)**:* > 3 minutes (or 5 if you really can't handle 3 minutes). > is why I really dread the Troll Challenge runs. Even talking about something like 30-60 minutes rebirths would sound like speedrunning to me, and speedrunning sounds like irritation to me. I only get anywhere near that kind of activity in Idling to Rule the Gods for the "speedfalling" tactic before starting any of the types of challenge in that game which reset your rebirth stats, and even then I just can't keep up the pace and I let some Might runs (about 95 minutes) or feed runs (3 hours) slip into what are supposed to be a quick series of 15 minutes speedfall runs. I'm kind of overdue to get the benefits from the Troll Challenge unlocked though. I've now got all of the first eight fruits at tier 10 plus the tenth fruit at tier 4 and the eleventh fruit at tier 1, plus another 23k seeds saved up currently. I have been running with 6 beard slots for a while so the 7th slot from TC4 will have zero meaning until I get the 7th beard from TC7 as well. Trying to think here what I actually accomplish within just those first few minutes of a rebirth, though... I'm at base stats of 3300:140M:6600 energy and 1650:70M:330 magic, and the total stats are at roughly 612k:3.96B:1.11M energy and 315k:2.45B:806k magic. It does seem like I have all of my energy and magic available to throw around within 2-3 minutes. After getting my blood rituals capped and throwing a bit on augments and getting an adventure kill for some initial gold, most of the energy and magic usually sits on time machine until advanced training unlocks. I suppose that wouldn't change much for the challenge, I just wouldn't be holding out for advanaced training if I'm really going to rebirth that rapidly. And that does get some GPS going to get some diggers active pretty soon as well. (And I've got 7 digger slots I can use.) Hmmm.... Should I consider downgrading to wandoos meh or wandoos 98 for the challenge for some easy levels within that time? (I don't think wandoos xl is going to do anything for me in so little time.) (You'll probably tell me that my stats right now are more than enough for this to be trivial (if I follow the advice for crazy fast 3 minute rebirths). Right?)

The thing about the 3 minutes rebirths is that when you didn't try it you are thinking "great, I'll have to be entirely focused on the game and nothing else for a few hours...". But in reality, you can even use wandoos Meh with these stats, and between wandoos, blood magic (fully on "number") and augments you should be able to clear at least the first 3-4 of the troll challenge in just a few rebirths (even those crazy short ones). A good way to understand just how much you can expect from 3 or 5 minutes would be to start a 24h challenge (since neither of those remove a "main" feature, but do a manual save before that if you just want to look), put a portion of your EM on time machine, put the rest on augments, blood magic and wandoos, and "nuke" enemies a few times during those first 3 or 5 minutes as well as going to the hardest adventure zone unlocked after those nukes for gold drops. At the 3 or 5 minutes mark (just after it since the number jumps up at those specific points in time) look at the rebirth screen after having nuked and fought the most bosses you could. You will probably see that you already reached pretty far in the boss count, but most importantly also look at the "or ~ X more bosses" at the bottom, which means that if you rebirthed right there and did the exact same thing. The best part is that because your gear gives you more and more stats as you go up the bosses and you have access to further adventure zones for significantly better gold drops, your second and third rebirth would also give you a significant rise in the boss reached since you would be able to afford more blood and better augments+upgrades as well as better gold diggers. If you equip accessories specifically for gold drops when you kill the first enemies in a zone, and EM stats + wandoos speed for the rest it makes it even more potent. I'm not a fan of fast rebirths either in general, but I did try this when I was around Walderp, purely out of curiosity since everyone was saying "challenges are a waste of time, wait until you are at the end of the game and do them in 3 minutes rebirths" at the time, and sure enough when you have the stats it is possible to end most challenges in less than 15 minutes per clear. For most challenges it's not exactly required, you can just take your time and eventually finish them anyway, but the troll challenge is something you do want to rush, and the 24h challenge probably also fits that category since there are so many to clear, but the later clears take a long time even with high stats, no matter the rebirth length since you have to reach near boss 300 at the end.

So I've finally decided to spend 4 days in one rebirth, to get some progress going - specifically: - max Bearded set + Infinity strand - max 100 bonuses - create L0 A+3, keep ~L20 A+2 (with other A+2 in daycare, plus yellow heart) - kill Walderp - unlock PP/Daycare diggers, and get some other levels up Now in new rebirth, with 2-3 hour setup (~2e21 GPS, 3k P/T train), I am able to run L20 e+m NGU and L1 PP diggers, and also kill Walderp. Otherwise, first seed perk maxed, all 1st page fruits activated except Numbers, FuMan 2k other beards 1k Some questions: - when I max Walderp's cane, can I filter it out and still get chance on getting the Candy Cane (what means 'evolution' on item?) ? - after adv. filter and yellow heart, what should be next? red heart (I still have only 2 daycare slots though)? - any advise on mcguffin strategy (have one slot, so far got only L7 drop change guffin) ?

> *Originally posted by **[armzzz](/forums/984525/topics/1831965?page=2#13177704)**:* > Some questions: > - when I max Walderp's cane, can I filter it out and still get chance on getting the Candy Cane (what means 'evolution' on item?) ? You can filter it out and still have a very small chance of dropping the candy cane but the main way to get those candy cane levels is to transform it from a level 100 of the normal cane (same thing you do for forest pendant and looty). You might want to keep one level 100 copy since the adventure stats on it are the same as the candy cane's but the real reason why it is a guaranteed drop at level 10+ is because it ends up being the way to get most of the levels on your candy cane (if you even want to level that up of course since it's only better in the bonuses). > - after adv. filter and yellow heart, what should be next? red heart (I still have only 2 daycare slots though)? Red heart definitely helps quite a bit in the long run but you can also consider beard slots if you kept up with your energy and magic bars since more beards can also mean quite a bit more bonuses for the short and medium term. Macguffin slots can also be a good way to get more bonuses if you have somewhat high level macguffin at this point (I mean level 50+ at least). > - any advise on mcguffin strategy (have one slot, so far got only L7 drop change guffin) ? I find energy/magic power to be the best ones early on since they give quite a bit of bonus on rebirth and those stats are affecting nearly everything, it becomes even more visible after they go over level 100 since their function ends up only being under gold/augment/stats. A level 7 drop chance macguffin would give you an increase of 0.0554% if you rebirth at the 24h mark (the energy/magic power ones would give exactly the same amount at the same level). It would take quite a few rebirths for it to affect your drop chance in a visible way but any low level macguffin has that problem so just go with whatever feels right if you don't have high level ones. You could also put your highest level one if you have one that is over the others. (Congrats on your progress by the way)