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It would probably be easier to put the no augmentations challenge first if you intend on doing them all since it would buff your augmentations for the basic and 100 levels challenges as well.
Doing your first no time machine challenge right after the no augmentations challenges would also guarantee you a lot more gold from the time machine to sustain augmentations and blood magic even in the first rebirths.
I don't know if it's feasible at that point of the game but doing a few laser sword challenges would also help quite a bit.
I also don't see no equipment challenge, is it intensionnal?
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Those sound like some fair tips for me as well. But about the no equipment challenge... auto-boost unlock, reduced auto-merge / auto-boost time, and inventory slots. Yes? Sounds like it's all purely for general convenience outside of challenges, not for making any of the other challenges go smoother. Am I missing something about it that would give a different impression about it? As it sounds, I certainly wouldn't try to skip it / ignore it but I'm not likely to make it a high priority either. It could sound more like a potential filler to add some variety if/when the repetition of something else too many times in a row gets to be too tedious.
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The no equipment challenge doesn't really help with clearing challenges but both auto boost and inventory slots are really big for your normal progression (I did them way too early so they took me 5+ hours each and even now I still think it was worth it even if I can't really recommend it since it's far from optimal for progression before UGG like I did).
You can definitely put it at the back, but on the plus side it is not one of the "target boss going up every time" challenge so once you have understood how to run it it doesn't change with each clear, and if you get bored of challenges before finishing all of the other challenges at least you will have those rewards.
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Yes, I want to do no-eq challenge too. I think today should be fine day to start with challenges.
So first no augment challenges (all?), then no timemachine.
Which challenge would you recommend to start before night, for some offline progression?
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It depends on your stats and how much gold GPS you can get before closing the game for the night (you are limited to early zones in the first rebirth of a challenge in normal so gold is a limiting factor).
You will probably be stuck with either scissors or milk if you intend to do it for the whole night offline, but when you are online you will most likely be able to go for a bit more like cannon.
Don't forget wandoos if you can wait until it is fully booted up before going offline, we are talking about at least 6 hours so even wandoos 98 will bring you quite a bit of bonus.
Depending on your bonuses, that offline session might even be enough to defeat boss 66 (the goal for the no equipment challenge).
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Sounds good - the no-eq chall seems to force the least amount of 'control' over the progress, so prob best for idle/offline.
Did you care at all about any progression (beards, fruits, ngu, itopod) during the challenges?
Is it even worth it to go for any of it?
Maybe switch from current 3 beards to try get some perm levels in the other 3 beards (Number, Wand, NGU) ?
---quick stat overview:
E/M keeping 1:2:40 ratio, 81M E 24M M baseCap
Base P/T 197k
5 acc 4 dig 3 beards
Wandoos 100/73/81 (98/pit/XL)
NGU PowerA 50k Wand 50k Aug 48k Gold 45k PowerB 8k
Diggers even spread, 122.9% bonus (e28 upgrades)
Beards A/D 15k Drop 14k Number 1k NGU 1k Wand 1k Adv 6k
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All 4 magic beards do help in challenges (especially if you go for longer rebirths, with the exception of the 100 levels challenge in which you want to disable all beards to not waste levels) but the 3 energy ones have little to no impact.
So with 3 slots and not having unlocked the GPS beard the "best" for challenges is probably to enable the attack/defense, number and wandoos beards (you can remove the number beard if challenges where you don't need to rebirth to get a bit more in the other two, the third slot doesn't matter much in that case so go for levels on an energy beard for a few permanent levels).
Fruits can help if you are going for longer rebirths, fruit of power alpha, beta and fruit of rebirth are all helpful since they allow you to get more progress in each rebirth.
Itopod is probably your best bet for adventure zones except when needing to defeat a boss in the highest zone you have unlocked with gold drop gear (and in the no time machine challenge you will probably want to stay in the highest zone you have since you need to farm it for gold).
You won't get as much PP progress as usual but it's better than nothing.
The alternative is using that time to farm for macguffins, the sewers and forest drop the energy and magic power macguffins so it's not the worst time to be farming for those either.
NGU is probably not going to see much use during challenges since you want to get as much progress out of your energy and magic in other features, but dumping any excess if there is some can always get you a few levels here and there.
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So far 4/25 no-aug (all ~20min per chal with 3-4min rebirths) and 2/10 TM chanl (first 20min, second 36min). Now unlocking laser sword to I can actually do Laser Sword chal.
One question - if Laser Challenge does not reset anything, is there any reason not to do it as part of normal 24-hour rebirth cycle, before wasting NUMBER down for other challenges?
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Laser sword challenge is definitely best suited for "normal" 24h rebirths, but with high enough stats you can also treat it as a normal challenge and just fully clear it in no time.
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Well it still does take some time - with 6e8 E it takes me over 5 minutes to make 1 sword, so its 10 min per challenge. 20x10 plus something for the secondary upgrade, and it's around 3 hours.
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Well, if the level 1 takes you 5 minutes, the level 21 would take you 1,155 minutes (about 19h 15 minutes) so it might be a bit out of reach at your current stats.
The reason is because level 1 > 2 takes twice as much as 0 > 1, go from 0 to 21 you need 231 times the amount of time it takes from 0 to 1.
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Yeah , so definitely better to do all Laser Sword challenges as part of 24 hour cycle, unless not at total end-game before Evil.
While probably not possible to higher levels (19 hours is way too much to invest for this I guess), the first 4-5 levels should be feasible without compromising NGU progress, and give good boost for other challenges.
Also, the laser challenge just became my candidate for overnight-run challenge :-)
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Well, since augmentations use energy power multiplier by the amount you put on them for the speed, you will notice that the time it takes goes down significantly faster than you would think at first (doubling both means quadrupling the speed, so between the higher equipments and the exp you spend it becomes fairly trivial when you have the set from the beast).
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I've still been going to about 24 hours over my last several runs (each started as laser sword challenge). Just because. But yeah, with end of normal mode stats the challenge itself is getting ended within the first minute of the run. I've finished 9 of the 20 runs of that challenge and the last one was completed in 41 seconds. I haven't noticed the completion times climbing all that drastically with each next one, either. (Thanks to 24 hour Fruit of Knowledge, with maxed out First Harvest perk and maxed out Giant Apple accessory (and of course using poop on it as well), dropping almost a million exp per rebirth to invest in better stats to throw at the next run.)
Edit: 11th laser sword challenge finished in 33 seconds. It's so silly rushing that part so much and then still hanging around for the regular leisurely 24 hour rebirth but the stat building I'm getting in should be good prep towards eventually entering evil mode.
Edit (a week or so later than the original post) : 18th laser sword challenge finished in 25 seconds... And it occurs to me after having already completed so many of them that I could have had the Badly Drawn Gun equipped for these for even faster completion times (which would look even sillier next to me still running full day rebirths anyway, but whatever). At least you'd think that 240% augment speed ought to be influential... It means not having the Chocolate Crowbar's 3600% EM bars though, which means that energy to dump onto the laser sword will be generating slower... Well, I'll experiment with that for the 19th one and see how it plays out.
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Progress so far (fastest / latest time in minutes). Idle builds are at least once per day/night, to support blood for pill
**Basic - done** (3:55)
**Nu-Augs - done** (15:48)
24-hour 15/80 (24:39)
**100-lev done** (15:02)
No-Eq 14/20 (17:20) -- day idle build
**Troll done **(3:23:29)
No-Reb 20/50 (1:12:49)
LaserSW 9/20 (3:31:24) -- night idle build
Blind 2/10 (9:01)
No-Ngu 1/10 (23:37)
No-TM 4/10 (2:08:54)
I want to complete blind and no-eq challenges, and at least 5th run in no-TM (buffed heart, now SmileyFace for +gold bonus).
Other probably not all, still rather low stats for those imho.
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The no rebirth challenge is slow, but 20 is only able to remove 60 minutes from titan respawns, so walderp will still take 2 hours (and all of the titans before it up to UGG will be at 1h because you can't go under that).
If you can push it to 40 clears it will also put walderp to 1h respawn.
The reason I am saying this is because all titans up to walderp drop AP for each kill.
With your current clears, titans will give you 135 AP (before bonuses are applied) every hour and 70 AP on top of that every 2 hours, for an average of 170 AP per hour from titans (or 4,080 per day).
If you get the 40 clears it will jump to 205 AP per hour (or 4,920 per day).
I know it doesn't sound like such a big deal given the massive amounts of AP you need for the AP shop and that most challenges give quite a bit for each clear as well, but it does add up over time while you are just doing your things.
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Yes - getting norebirth to 40 makes definitely sense.
The AP from challenges are nice (currently at +28.1% from achievements + heart bonus).
7 accessories, 6 beards, 4 diggers total so far.
Not sure if I want to prioritize the 50% auto-merge/bonus timer over digger slot though.
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I'm currently facing the same phase than you, but I probably have some more EM stats. I recently finished my 20th No-Reb Challenge too, but it only took me about 8 minutes to do so. Meanwhile I also need around 15 minutes for No-Eq challenges too, so I'm wondering if I do smth wrong. Whats your normal challenge rotation? Kill the 30th boss with few augments, dump lvls in time machine, set up gold diggers and then lvl augments, wandoos until minute 3 and then rebirth?
How much exp did you gain in the game already? Did you max The beast gear?
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I have maxed UUG gear, and maxed but semi-buffed BDW gear + L50 candy cane / wald acc.
EXP 2.3e6 , AP 1.3e6 .
I mostly dump all to timeMachine + wandooz, cap diggers (stats+wand+mag-beard), nuke bosses, put E to augs and M to blood (auto number + gold).
When I am close to time when I want rebirth, I dump all E to augs and M to blood.
The no-eq challenge is kind of random, as I mostly take it as idle build. First rebirth is mostly few bosses after 5th mole.
Do you have No-TM challenges? I guess this can help with the no-eq gold generation for augs.
Also completing no-aug challenges helps with dmg/cost of augs.
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Well, I got around 3e6 exp now and I'm halfway through maxing the beast set. I focused a lot on adventure stats / drop chance, so I neglected the challenges till now. It also makes sense, that I'm faster in other challenges but not in the No-Equip Challenge. I finished the 4th No-TM challenge as you, but I don't have any gold problem during the challenge, probably because my Gold NGU lvl is quite high.
Was the No-NGU Challenge any difficult for you? 23 minutes seems okay. Didn't try it yet, because I thought it could take a long time, but I think I'll give it a try!
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I tried the NoRebirth 21/50, took me 19:18 - so the previous 1:12:49 run I probably idled a lot.
No-NGU felt kind of slow, obviously.. not sure how fast I would get to the higher bosses.
One thing - which augments do you use? At this moment, probable optimum would be Shoulder-Mounted with upgrades?
Although e.g. for No-Eq chall, I end up maxing Energy Busters without upgrades if I recall correctly.
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One question about augments - is there any recommendation on ratio of levels put into augment and its upgrade?
When I have 3000 Shoulder Mounted , should I target for 3000 Actual Ammo ?
Also - do you have any ratio of E put into augment VS upgrade ?
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The best results tend to be when getting a similar level on both yes.
The exact ratio for energy on augmentation:upgrade is a bit different but roughly 1:1 for scissor, 2:1 for milk, 3:1 for canon, 4:1 for shoulder, 5:1 for buster (and then it jumps to 7:1 for exoskeletton and I think 9:1 for laser sword but not sure about that last one).
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Further progress:
No-Eq done (16:00)
Blind done (1:32:11)
24hr 17/80 (24:08)
NoRebirth 36/50 (7:09:15) - new all-purpose idle build , so times may vary
LaserS 10/20 (2:17:03) - faded out in favor of no-reb chal
NoNgu 2/10 (1:01:51) - painfully slow, prob. need better perks to speed this up
NoTm - still 4/10 , want to fully buff SmileyFace + add more gold shower perks before diving into this chal
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The no NGU and no TM challenges were added later compared to the other challenges (well, laser sword as well but that challenge is different since it doesn't reset your number and banks so you can do it at any time), so they do assume stats that are closer to what you would have with gear from the beast or further.
Getting the first levels of each like you did already gives you some decent boosts, enough to leave the rest alone for when you are preparing for evil mode after the chocolate zone (when you have spent PP and exp in the "stats for rich jerk" on top of having the best gear of normal mode to just buldoze through those challenges).
The 24h challenge is a bit weird where you are, you can either continue it for AP "right now" or leave as many of it as possible for later when you have more achievements to get a bit more AP.
All in all, you are pretty close to having finished what you can reach challenge-wise at your level of progress, so when you go back to normal rebirths after rebuilding your number a bit (probably through a no TM challenge since it's the challenge that asks for the highest boss, so that the climb back also gets you a bit more, but not necessarily) you will very quickly notice the major difference from before from all of the challenge rewards you got in that run.
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