(Edited with quotes since it's on the next page) > *Originally posted by **[armzzz](/forums/984525/topics/1831965?page=6#13242138)**:* > Maxed/buffed all Choco/V4 gear, and 1k bonuses. > The gear optimizer is great. It seems the regular tie and utility ring are now past usefullness (at least with 8 slots). Using Slimy helm over Choco, to balance E/M NGU. > > For the evil conditions, I might go all EXP for rich jerks, as I need PP/QP for banks etc. > > PP: now 6600 progress per kill > - need complete first 3 lines exc. rich, shadow, boss exp (missing double training, quick number fruit, wand-lover, imp cube, 68/100 adv-train = 364PP), also L3 banks (650PP - got 4 levels in gold). > - got: harvest, 2 dig, 1 guf, imp guf drops1, itopod guf, imp itopod guf1, blood guf alpha. > - anything else? For PPs, you might want the "stats for rich perk" of the first line to some extent. Just 90 levels (90 PP) means that you will defeat an extra boss in each rebirth, it will help quite a bit for the initial boss climb in evil mode, along with the attack/defense for rich jerks in the exp menu. Of course you don't want to go too heavily on that perk for now, 900 more levels are needed to mean one more boss. The time machine bank can easily be left for later if you are purely preparing for evil mode since you will barely be able to level your time machine at all at the start. Advanced training and beard banks are not exactly bad but they cost quite a bit, a single level in the rank 4 could also get you 1% on energy/magic stat perks. All in all you will be earning more PP in evil mode than in normal (it adds 500 to the base, which tends to be much bigger than what the lower digger level would substract), so there is no real point in pushing back the jump just because of itopod perks. > QP: 117% reward mod > - first line all exc. stat/adv boosts, plus beasts seed. Now leveling gen EP quirk 1. > - do you prefer leveling gen E/M quirks, or rather banks / something else? I would say to leave the banks for much later, the effect of a 75% bank compared to a 50% bank is definitely not small (if you cap the speed at all times, it means 4 days worth of levelling at 75% compared to 2 days at 50%) but you need to be able to cap them even at 10+ million levels for it to really matter. EM stats is always good when you are not sure since a lot of features are boosted when getting bonuses on those, the two wandoos quirks will also allow you to use wandoos 98 a bit more easily in evil mode (not a hard requirement but it doesn't hurt having it). EDIT: To give you an idea about the banks, I am only now in the process of finishing them when I already had everything else up to the second macguffin slot (as well as most of what is after that). Of course I am a bit late at getting them but the formulas on advanced training and beard as well as the quickly ramping up costs in gold and GPS for diggers means that the extra bank is not going to give you as much as you might hope for at first.

Done with first 3 lines of PP, including 90 levels in rich perks. Now starting to save up for Fib 1 - that will take some time, but seems worth it (quest speed is nice too, but Fib1 is better). QP continuing with boosting E/M cap for now. First fruit page all L24, 2nd page 16/5/0/2/0 (tried watermelon, seems too expensive for too little gains for now, and I cant auto-activate it yet). I could afford Fruit Delta (~3 levels) including auto-activation. Is it worth it (for evil prep), or just keep leveling PP fruit? For adv stats, I can now get P/T 1e13 / 6e12, however that is with 250k+ adv-training and ~L150 adv digger.. How much will the training/digger levels be slowed down in evil? Also - can I do 3min rebirth into evil (to get achievement for AP bonus), then jump back on normal challenges?

For the fruits, anything beyond the fruit of rage takes a massive amount of seeds so it doesn't matter too much but from my own experience I would say to go for fruit of rage and fruit of macguffin alpha before really investing on the remaining ones. Those two fruits can give you quite a bit of returns, especially at the point of the game you are at (PP are always needed, and with few macguffin slots the fruit of macguffin alpha can bring you a large amount of levels, the beta tends to only become better when you have a lot of slots and a rank 18+ in it). There is nothing wrong with starting the fruit of power delta, but until it reaches a high rank it is not exactly going to give you all that much. > How much will the training/digger levels be slowed down in evil? The trainings (basic and advanced) are not affected at all (I think you lose the bank when jumping to evil mode but that's about it, no massive speed dividers or anything). Diggers are affected quite a lot since at most you will be able to put a few levels in time machine, add to that a greatly diminished blood magic output due to the speed divider, it means that your diggers will only be sustained by the time machine fueled by gold drops from chocolate zone or the beast (not sure which is higher). When you start getting gold and gear from evil zones it will start to get better and by the time you are farming the first evil titan you will probably be able to start getting devent active levels on your diggers (still much lower time machine levels and less blood but a much higher base from gold drops). > Also - can I do 3min rebirth into evil (to get achievement for AP bonus), then jump back on normal challenges? Once you unlocked evil mode you can jump back and forth as you want, so you can definitely do that, but it might not be a bad idea to stay in evil mode a bit longer and see for yourself how it plays out. The begining of evil mode looks really scary but 4G fixed the most problematic part (the "you need to reach boss 100 to get 100% of the stats from your equipment" doesn't apply to evil mode), and you have access to all of the adventure zones from normal without having t defeat bosses, so staying until you get the time machine and looking at the changes in each feature will probably let you notice that it definitely slows down progress on a few things but it's not as bad as you first thought.

Yeah, banked levels don't survive through the jump between difficulties. It won't hurt things too much on the advanced training though. I'm back in evil again right now (got most of the challenges in normal out of the way, though I'll still have to go back again for a bunch of the no augment challenge and as much as I can stand of the 24hr challenge). I'm 18 hours into the current rebirth. Might've randomly done a 6 hour rebirth before that, plus the hour or so before that was a few shorter rebirths kind of like when I first tried evil. Gold from chocolate zone / beast along with getting up to 13 levels in TM speed and 10 levels in TM multiplier is supporting adventure digger running at level 106 for a 221.67% boost. I had set up advanced training with the leftovers that didn't get allocated to augments / TM / wandoos 98 / NGU (like maybe 0.5% or so of my current total energy cap) and I'm currently at around 1.32M levels adventure power and 1.32M level adventure toughness (which are about 2800 or so % boosts). I'm actually sitting at an overall total of 2.2e14 power and 1.0e14 toughness right now, which would be more than enough to start farming for Pretty Pink Princess Land's drops if I had it unlocked right now (I should get there in the next rebirth). EDIT: For some context you can compare to, around when I first tried evil I was at > basic / troll / no rebirth / laser sword challenges all finished, all other challenges each at 5 completions > Base stats: 53k / 2.15B / 106k energy stats and 27.6k / 1.13B / 55.2k magic stats. And now I'm at 10/25 no augment done, 10/80 24hr done, all other normal challenges fully completed. Base stats: 75k / 3B / 150k energy stats and 50k / 2B / 100k magic stats Also, base adventure stats would have pretty much only grown from fruit of adventure harvests since whatever they were at when I first tried evil difficulty. (No exp spent on it in that time.) And they're currently at 3.415M / 3.413M / 10.75M / 129249.

I am at similar level of base E/M now - E 61k/2.4B/123k , M 20k/0.8B/40k . However I'm already done with all challs except 2 noTM, 10 noReb, and 24/80 24hour - so my gain from catching up with chals won't be so big. The adv stats is however where poop hits the ventilation. Base P/T are 1.2e6 - less than half you have. - NGU adv : E 2.1e7 M 230k levels - beard 456% perm bonus How to mitigate this: - EXP to adv stats - 0.4% gain (~5000 from 1.2e6) is 15k EXP (FoK is ~4.5M now) - PP : 0.4% for 400 PP - QP 0.4% for ~ 1 major quest (100QP) So cheapest/quickest seems definitely EXP. To double my P+T will cost 7.446M EXP now.

I'm at a similar point in the game, about 110 million total exp. I wouldn't recommend buying adventure stats, spending 7 million exp on base stats is only going to be about a 10% base gain with choco gear. You could get almost as much, plus a bunch of other stuff, by continuing to focus on your energy and magic stats for stronger NGUs. It's not a huge error to buy a few adventure stats, but just not great right now. Wouldn't it be better to get to a point where you can keep your drop chance NGU capped all the time, which you're probably only a couple of days away from? And then when you're preparing to take on a new zone, you can run adventure B the day before (since you can keep adventure A capped without trouble.) I only have like 600k of each base toughness and power and it's fine. I would probably recommend waiting another ~2 days or so before going into evil where armzzz is at. You could go now and it would be perfectly fine, there's just nothing for you to do there until you're either ready to take on the evilverse or you have a ton of perk points to start investing in generic EM level 2. So basically, here's the breakdown when you start evil: The biggest hurdle you face is that you lose about half of your digger levels. This is because there's a huge multiplier added to the difficulty of gaining time machine levels, so you can only pick up a handful to start with. It's a loss of at least 1e15x gold, probably even more than that. In exchange, you get +20% ygg yield (softcap, easy to attain), and a bit more perk points from itopod. But you probably won't actually get many more perk points rights away due to the loss of digger level - you get maybe 15% more from itopod but you lose some from the beast and ygg. This will increase over time but it's still just a slight boost to begin with. So the net result of this is you probably lose 10% exp/day, a bit of NGU speed (lower diggers again), and most other stuff kind of washes out. You gain a bit of garden progress. All in all, not a big deal, and if you're really curious and want to see what it's like it won't kill you to head into evil at >50m exp. I went into evil myself at about 55 million, and it was perfectly fine, but there was just no incentive to be there yet. So it was a bit early, but nothing terrible. I've been powering up so that I can farm evilverse gear at 2-3 hits (and higher drop chance) rather than doing it earlier when it would take several days, so really I could have stayed in normal until now if I wanted and it would have been fine. So for entering evil, I would recommend: 1. Ability to keep ygg yield and exp magic NGUs capped 100% of the time. Absolute most important thing. You want to run those almost all the time. 2. Ability to cap first 6 energy NGUs. This should be easy. 3. At least 70 million exp spent on energy and magic stats with a reasonable ratio. (Ideally plan out when you want to farm evilverse for gear and then wait until then to head to evil mode. You can farm it earlier than I am if you really want, but it will take days. Don't worry too much about pushing bosses yet, boss 125 is too far away to worry about for a bit, and boss 100 isn't hard to reach when you're ready. If you have the above stats, boss 58 can be reached in <2 hours.) But with that said, it's a game, and going to evil a bit early isn't too bad. Most people probably won't even notice the loss but it's about ~10% or so less efficient if you go too early. Start a basic challenge when you enter, because you might as well. (If you truly wanted to min-max you could consider more basic challenges before evilverse, but it's a lot of effort for a minor gain. As long as you keep running your ygg and exp NGUs, you can't go too far wrong no matter what you do. The only thing you could do wrong is spending 12 hours a day on evil NGUs. Don't do that. Just soft cap ygg yield on the first day and throw in a half hour here and there when it's fast.)

> *Originally posted by **[MuljoStpho](/forums/984525/topics/1831965?page=6#13231330)**:* > * Base stats: 41k / 2B / 82k energy stats and 20.5k / 1B / 41k magic stats. Also base adventure stats are a bit over 2.3M power / toughness and 6.7M max health and 80k health regen. > Forgot I had that in a post about 5 days before my first trip into evil difficulty. So over the last... 17 or so days? Over that amount of time I've gained about a million or so power and toughness almost entirely from harvests of the fruit of adventure. (It scales based on current amount of base toughness, right? I think slay said that somewhere in here. So it wasn't giving this much 17 days ago of course, but my most recent harvest (24hr, apple equipped for extra yield, evil NGU Ygg levels boosting effectiveness of normal NGU Ygg levels) brought in over 160k power and toughness.) And that's all free of any exp cost. Sure, buying the stats would definitely be quicker. But that's exp that could have been spent on more energy/magic stats to help pump more levels into NGUs. (Can't technically attribute *all* of the gains to fruit of adventure since iron pill gets you a bit of power and toughness as well, for no other cost besides the time you spend saving up blood for it. But at this point in the game I find iron pill's gains to be kind of trivial compared to gains from the fruit of adventure. Plus, iron piill is weakened further while early in evil mode since the rituals are slowed down so much that you hardly get any blood coming in to use on the spells.)

At 77M exp now, capping regularly first 7 E NGU and first 4 M NGU. @DoomsDaySolja - thanks for pointing out the drop-chance necessary for Evilverse farming. Hope with caping NGU and FoL boost I can get there. Do you know the total drop chance required for maxing Evilverse item drop chance? . . Also a question regarding McGuffins - I've got all 3 equipped over L100 (EP, MP, E NGU). Should I keep leveling these over L100 (only have 3 slots now) , or level other guffins like M NGU to L100 first?

Finished off the evilverse. Maxing boss drop chance at evilverse would take about 30 billion% (3e10), I wouldn't aim quite that high. I had about 260 million% (2.6e8) which gave 2.46% boss drop chance at the end farming with 3 drop accessories (RoG, a4p lvl 19, a3p). That's with ~26 million drop ngu, 2600% ygg, 500%/265% beard. Others will likely have a bit stronger beard numbers than me since I've had them at low priority and try to keep progressing quickly. (I also used stapler all of the time, and green heart/flubber respawn bonus some of the time.) Took 25 hours of total farming to complete. Started with 2-3 hits/kill, down to 1 hit/kill at the end of the day. For farming speed, getting your kill speed up is probably going to be your most important factor through much of evil due to your drop rate getting cube rooted, but a little extra drop never hurts. Each time you double your drop rate is worth about 25% faster farming, which is nice, but you can usually get about the same result by knocking a hit off your kill speed. Going from 6 hits to 2 is over 100% faster farming. Going from 2 hits to 1 is +35-40%. So I certainly wouldn't recommend farming until you can do it with beast mode, I'm not sure why some people seem to recommend farming as soon as you can idle. Would take forever. (Though I can't speak for zones later on in evil, perhaps that may change.) IMO, better to sit at the itopod at those points. With current stats I could move on to PPP and farm it in 3-4 days, but I'll probably drop down, do some evil no rebirth challenges, and push to the next titan instead. I'll consider PPP if 125 still seems far away then.

> *Originally posted by **[armzzz](/forums/984525/topics/1831965?page=7#13246038)**:* > Do you know the total drop chance required for maxing Evilverse item drop chance? > . Seeing if I can work this out... Taking the value for "total drop chance modifier" in the stat breakdown... The wiki shows a formula that's cube root of (drop chance / 100), so I'm dividing that value by 100 and getting the cube root of that result... I'm looking at Chocolate Zone (and not specifically geared for drop chance) to confirm the math (I've been back in normal difficulty - finished no aug challenges and a few more of the 24hr) and the wiki lists a base of 0.055% for the boosts there... Multiplying the cube root result by that 0.055% base gets me a result of 9.15 and that's exactly what the tooltip on Chocolate Zone is showing me for the boost drop chance. Alright, so in Evilverse the wiki has from normal enemies: * Boost 200 or 500 - each has a 0.012% base chance, up to 10% max * Edgy (set) + Edgy Boots (set) - each piece has a 0.006% base chance, up to 8% max And from bosses: * Edgy (set) + Edgy Boots (set) - each piece has a 0.018% base chance, up to 12% max * BOTH Edgy Boots - has a 0.5% + 0.00000001% base chance, up to 10% max So, working backwards on each of those... Boosts: 10 / 0.012 = 833.33, and then 833.33 ^ 3 = 5.787e8, and then multiply by 100 to get 5.787e10 as the amount of total drop chance modifier needed to max out the boost drop chance basic set pieces from normal enemies: ((8 / 0.006) ^ 3) x 100 = 2.370e11 total drop chance modifier basic set pieces from bosses: ((12 / 0.018) ^ 3) x 100 = 2.963e10 total drop chance modifier special drop from bosses (requires completing one of the basic set bonuses) : Okay, I'm not sure where the 0.5 is supposed to fit into this but ignoring it and taking ((10 / 0.00000001) ^3 ) x 100 gets a result of 1e37 total drop chance modifier. Interesting to see the difference in how the rare drops are scaled, I guess. Don't even think of trying to max out that drop chance, basically. But looking at the boosts and the set pieces, if you can get your total drop chance modifier into the e10 or e11 ranges you'll be in a really good spot for those drop chances. Are those actually reasonable goals yet at that point in the game, though? Let's see, personally if I throw on all of my drop chance equipment right now (all the best stuff I can put into my 10 accessory slots) I get mine up to... 8.729e8. I think when I had been collecting the set pieces from Evilverse the drop chances shown in the tooltip were around 2 or 3% (though that could have been with a somewhat lower total modifier since I've had a week or two to gain more NGU levels / more beard levels / etc.) and it took a couple days for me to get all the set pieces to 100. EDIT: > *Originally posted by **[DoomsDaySolja](/forums/984525/topics/1831965?page=7#13246125)**:* > Maxing boss drop chance at evilverse would take about 30 billion% (3e10), I wouldn't aim quite that high. I had about 260 million% (2.6e8) which gave 2.46% boss drop chance at the end farming with 3 drop accessories (RoG, a4p lvl 19, a3p). That's with ~26 million drop ngu, 2600% ygg, 500%/265% beard. Others will likely have a bit stronger beard numbers than me since I've had them at low priority and try to keep progressing quickly. I'm currently at about 11 million NGU drop chance levels, 4038 bonus from Ygg, and 407.63% on the permanent part of the beard bonus. Sure I've got the edge in Ygg and beards, but I feel like I'm waaaaay behind on that NGU here. EDIT2: Macguffins? I'm currently at 149.733% drop chance bonus from there. EDIT3: Blood magic can potentially make a difference as well, though you can't do as much with it in evil difficulty. I looked at my numbers just now (in normal difficulty) with a 35% bonus from Blood Spaghetti. Same for diggers. I looked at my numbers here with the digger providing about 390% boost.

> I'm currently at about 11 million NGU drop chance levels, 4038 bonus from Ygg, and 407.63% on the permanent part of the beard bonus. > > Sure I've got the edge in Ygg and beards, but I feel like I'm waaaaay behind on that NGU here. > > EDIT2: Macguffins? I'm currently at 149.733% drop chance bonus from there. > EDIT3: Blood magic can potentially make a difference as well, though you can't do as much with it in evil difficulty. I looked at my numbers just now (in normal difficulty) with a 35% bonus from Blood Spaghetti. Same for diggers. I looked at my numbers here with the digger providing about 390% boost. I've been focusing the EM pow and cap macguffins, but they all average about 115%. Drop is 101.3%. Also just started running stat until next titan, which i'm pretty sure was a mistake (should run magic NGU) but I'm sticking with it. Have 5 slots. The drop NGU isn't too bad to make up, that's like 4 days of cap. The beard and ygg differences will also wash out over time. If all your macguffs are that high though, that edge will last a while, especially if you have more slots. I don't think it's really so much that you're behind in the NGUs as it is that you have more stats(beard/macguff) from the end of normal than I do, maybe a very bit less total exp, and a higher ratio of magic to energy stats than me. Also a higher ratio spent on bars (the usual recommendation is 1:37.5k:1, but I keep magic bars a bit lower than that still since boosts to number and gold aren't as valuable.) Still, the most important stat for progression at this point in the game is going to be normal ygg/exp levels, which are purely a function of time capped from the end of normal. You can't speed those up, but everything else can be done much faster with a few days of exp. (Maybe the important focus for progression will change after hacks? Not completely sure). I'm currently at about 60m for each of those. That's why I prefer not to spend too much time on evil NGUs at this point, just when i can get a significant boost in a short time.

> *Originally posted by **[DoomsDaySolja](/forums/984525/topics/1831965?page=7#13246221)**:* > the usual recommendation is 1:37.5k:1 > Usually with a footnote bumping the bars to 2 a bit after beards are unlocked, since beards level at a speed determined by bars and square root of power. Although I've also seen mention of eventually reaching a point where the usefulness of bars for beard leveling speeds gets to be saturated (all of them leveling at capped speed) and then you can ease off on bars again after that point. (I think people have said that that should happen somewhere around reaching one of evil difficulty's titans? Maybe the first one when resource 3 gets unlocked and apparently takes most of the priority after that?) Advice that I'd seen on energy:magic ratio was that at the end of normal / beginning of evil it shifts to wanting to have at least 3/4 as much magic stats as energy stats (maybe even eventually approaching having them about equal) as opposed to earlier in the game where the advice can be anywhere from having 1/3 to 1/2 as much magic stats as energy stats. I adjusted my buying with that in mind after I hit 2B / 1B base caps. Don't know if that was actually the ideal time for it though. (I haven't really been too concerned with optimal efficiency here. Through most of normal I knew of the common 1:37.5k:(1 or 2) advised ratio (well, I first heard of it and always thought of it as 1:40k:1) and preferred to stick to 1:50k:(1 or 2) instead. Recently after starting buying stats equally after 2B / 1B caps though, I did focus power and bars up a bit to where my current values actually are in line with 1:40k:2.) Currently I'm dealing with e11 range total caps... Currently blood magic rituals in evil would need e15 range mcap to run all rituals at max speed... I don't know how to estimate what range of ecap will have augments running the way they did in normal... Anyway... Yeah, I kind of made a point to get a ton of macguffin slots unlocked and I've generally been able to equip all or almost all of them at the same time. (Currently only need a new slot for the magic wandoos speed macguffin that I picked up from Pretty Pink Princess Land a couple days ago. And the options to get that next slot are... 100M EXP (which doesn't seem reasonable at this time, that represents about 2/3 of everything I've earned so far) or 5000 PP (not a trivial amount but this might be the most reasonable one to save up for) or 7500 QP (still seems like a lot to me) or evil Troll Challenge 2 (I'll procrastinate that challenge as long as I can, thank you). I already got all the ones from spending AP and the cheaper one for EXP.) All the power / cap / bar / beard / NGU macguffins for both energy and magic have accumulated bonuses almost as high as that drop chance bonus. 140-150 range.

Once you have enough bars to effectively cap beards for the whole duration of your rebirth (which happens fairly early into evil mode unless you neglected your bars) the only use for your bars is to reach your cap. At that point it becomes more of a personal preference like before you unlocked beards, but with the added factor that your rebirths are probably quite long, meaning that even taking 20-30 minutes to reach your cap might not be such a big deal. Again, it's all personal preferences at that point, I still go for 1:37.5k:1.875 even now to keep the whole "reach the cap in about a minute" with my current equipment and bonuses, but if you want to be more optimal about your exp spendings you might want to go back to 1 or lower for bars. I don't think magic stats above half of energy stats are really worth it even if you take wishes into account, but if you want to go for really high magic stats the reason would be entirely for wishes, since that is the only place that even gains anything from having super high stats and a 1:1 ratio (the biggest drain for EM until you reach the point of worrying about wishes is evil NGU and it works with a 3:1 ratio as the basis after all). > And the options to get that next slot are... In the very near future you will cap beards so that will free 2 macguffin slots for a while. I don't recommend the troll challenge early either, but exp and PP are going to rise significantly from evil NGUs, QP will also follow a bit later when you start seriously levelling hacks so all of those slots will be available to you somewhat soon (probably around godmother, the second titan of evil mode, perhaps even a bit earlier).

fyi the beard guffs are bugged and don't actually work, so any other guffs would be better than those

So back to challenges in normal. All done except 24-hour (41/80 - last comp. ~26min). Bought 9th acc. slot and called it a day. I would have to get ~18 more challenges to get 10th - not sure if it's possible though. ( also missing all but yellow+red heart - maybe rather get green heart than 10th slot? ) Evil was as expected, slow AF, but that's more incentive to complete some normal challenges.

Done with challenges in normal - 60/80 24hour left. Got the 10th acc slot, and 4th mcguff slot. Now getting deeper into evil. Adv. training and beards seem to be not affected much. Time machine 10 / 4 in one hour. Augments are slow as well. PP gain is already better (had 10.5K , now 13k). For NGU - what ratio of time spend on normal vs evil NGU would you recommend, for 24 hour rebirth cycles?

You want to get a few levels on the relatively quick evil NGUs since the effect multiply the ones from normal NGUs, but after that you will go back to normal NGUs for quite a while since the new sets will allow you to cap them and get a pretty high amount of levels like that. It is very likely that you will get around 50 to 100 million levels on most of the normal NGUs while building up your energy and magic to be able to start really pumping evil NGUs. At first glance it might not look very nice, but it does mean that you are going to be able to also level PP and adventure beta around cap speed, that alone is going to help quite a bit. And while that is going on, you will probably get a bit of energy and magic left, meaning that you will be able to start using time machine, augments and blood magic a bit more even with the massive speed dividers. EDIT: Don't forget to go to the second page of itopod perks, there is a newly added perk that costs 200 PP that is called "welcome to evil difficulty", it gives you a decent +200% boost to attack/defense but most importantly a bonus of 50% to drop chance.

Yeah, my NGU levels have been going crazy these last few days (while leveling and boosting the princess zone's set (got one piece to 100 but still working on the rest)) with all except NGU PP and NGU Adventure Beta leveling at cap speed. (Not capping those last ones yet, but they are at least leveling a lot quicker than they ever have before.) I've currently got 6.644e7 levels in each of the first 6 eNGUs, 2.844e7 drop chance, 1.476e7 magic, and 4.023e6 PP. And in magic NGUs I've currently got 6.223e7 ygg, 5.093e7 exp, 3.844e7 power beta, 3.031e7 number, 1.925e7 tm, 1.288e7 energy, and 4.263e6 adventure beta. I've given evil NGU levels a little bit of attention here and there, but it can still take however many minutes per level in the faster ones and maybe an hour or so per level in the slower ones. (And that's time NOT spent receiving a flood of regular levels.) I've currently got in evil energy NGUs: 1213 augments, 1062 wandoos, 912 respawn, 285 gold, 85 adventure alpha, 26 power alpha, 20 drop chance, 17 magic, and 6 PP. And I've currently got in evil magic NGUs: 1594 ygg, 499 exp, 154 power beta, 53 number, 28 tm, 25 energy, and 7 adventure beta. You do see some significant differences in the boosts provided by at least a few of them with those early evil levels though. > *Originally posted by **[armzzz](/forums/984525/topics/1831965?page=7#13249408)**:* > Done with challenges in normal - 60/80 24hour > Nice. I'm still just at 15/80 24hr challenges done. Got everything else finished last time I was in normal difficulty but I've still got a ton of those to get back to. Not sure at the moment when I'll be going back to finish more of those, though. Within the last few hours I just started getting my first kills on the Greasy Nerd, so I've got his drops that I can start getting and I've got the hacks feature that I can finally mess around with... Maybe. I don't know how far the starting resource3 stats will really get me and I don't think I'm quite there yet on getting enough exp coming in to feel comfortable with the cost of more.

The good motivation for the 24h challenges (at least the normal difficulty ones) is usually the fairly massive amount of AP they bring. Finishing your digger slots, getting macguffin slots, accessory slots, extended quest bank (the last one is not vital but being able to "store" 50 major quests instead of 10 allows you to pick when you want to be doing the major quests without being pressured by a cap reached in 2 days).

Yeah I would say at least 90% of time should be spent on normal NGUs. The evil NGUs tend to not scale well, you can only afford a few of them now, and you can always do them much faster later. Meanwhile you can never speed up the capped normal NGUs, so you want to run them as much as you can. By not scale well, the harshest example is the ygg yield evil NGU. Getting the first 20% is great, but everything after that has bad diminishing returns, (NGU value)^.1. According to the wiki, even if you reach the cap at 1,000,000,000 levels, the boost is still only 87.26%. I probably spend only about half an hour or so on evil NGUs per day, though you could make a case for doing a little more than that if you wanted. I would just say to push them occasionally either when they're fast or there's something specific you need - some more augments for a boss push or challenges, a bit more adventure power to clear a zone, etc. I'm almost halfway through farming greasy nerd gear - I dropped down and picked up 20 evil no rebirth challenges beforehand so it goes pretty fast (that's not necessary to do though, the challenges mostly took ~30 mins, 6 took about an hour, last took 90 minutes. I figured even if I did them after the titan I would still likely need to wait for the 30 minute fruit so might as well do them now.) Also did 1 troll challenge for the accessory slot (70 minutes). I just skipped PPP zone completely for now, will do it when it's fast for the set completion and maybe the accessory (maxed evilverse gear before doing challenges and then pushing to the titan). Have just managed to get all NGUs capped right now so the main goal for the moment is to try to keep them that way. NGU Adventure is at like 6.3 million now, so the cost is still going up pretty quickly, but between perk points coming in faster with that capped NGU, titan gear level is going up, and exp gains, that should enough in a day or two to keep all normal NGUs capped forever. (For reference, highest NGUs are at 75 - 79 millon - exp, ygg, and adv A.) At which point I could probably do just about whatever for a week or so and wouldn't lose much long term efficiency as long as those stay capped. Did unlock hacks and max the titan item which gives some extra stats, but it seems like for the moment it's mainly just going to be boosting attack/defense stats for a bit, with a scattered 1-2% of some other bonuses.

Evil NGU so far (about 1 hour time invested) - E aug 822 wand 434 resp 725 gold 83 adv 72 M ygg 655 exp 355 power 22 Otherwise continuing on normal NGUs (caping first 6 E and 4 M). For the PP - after 'welcome' perk, is there any other perk with high impact? Or continue generic E/M , or NGU perks? QP progress is still rather slow, so getting generic E/M quirks seems the limit at this moment.

I would say to stick to the EM and NGU perks if you don't have anything else you really want right now, EM stats tend to be what gives you the most returns in the medium and long term (more NGUs capped, higher blood production, higher level time machine, more augments...). Since one of your medium term aims is to be able to pump levels in evil NGUs, EM stats and NGU speed bonuses are extremely valuable.

Stick to normal NGU until you have Beast NGU Quirk ever. That's what I do.

Progress: Maxed Edgy and Boot set from Evilverse (not yet boosted). With 1.665e9 drop chance and one-hit enemies, I still have only L23 BothBoots (plus one in daycare). How long did it take for you to max BothBoots?