I'm at nerd V3, autokill. I've got 12 macguffin slots. My adventure guffin is lvl 2500, the rest are around lvl 400. Bonuses for all of them are similar: 120% - 130%. Is now a good time to go HAM on 30 minute rebirths for bonuses or should I wait? Are the guffin gains worth the tedium of 30 min rebirths and losing my banks? I've already done all the normal challenges and the evil ones I can handle, so no point in getting those done at the same time. I suppose I could try to get a couple more no ngu challenges done if that's even possible at this point. Also, should I farm and green the drops in IDP or skip it for now and try to hit GM first?

It's a very personal decision based on the expected gains vs. your willpower (or your willingness to script the run). I've got a calculator for the first part at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lMiazxEsG-0qHjI3McwEPSwuHisgMGbirm0sFKP6BLQ/edit#gid=0 - put in the level and current bonus of the guffs you care about, and how many rebirths you plan to do of X length, and it'll tell you the expected gain as well as letting you combine guff gains to view stuff like overall effect on hack speed. By default it's set for you to use the muffin right before you rebirth at the end of a regular run and do 10 hours of 30m rebirths, but your mileage may vary substantially from that. When I was willing to do a guff run, I did challenges and quests at the same time for most of a day.

Thanks, nice tool. It's hard to say if doing a bunch of 30 minute runs is worth it though. If I'm using the tool correctly, it would take around 80 runs (with muffins) to double the bonus on a lvl 400 energy power guff from 125% to 150%. I'll probably wait until I've got more slots and more challenges to do.

> *Originally posted by **[Sludgeporpoise](/forums/984525/topics/1906599?page=1#13376642)**:* > Thanks, nice tool. It's hard to say if doing a bunch of 30 minute runs is worth it though. If I'm using the tool correctly, it would take around 80 runs (with muffins) to double the bonus on a lvl 400 energy power guff from 125% to 150%. I'll probably wait until I've got more slots and more challenges to do. I'm going to assume that "doubling a bonus" as a personal goal is going to look more and more outlandish the higher your bonuses already are when looking at this. I'm somewhere between Exile v2 and v3 autokill stats (already finished leveling/maxing the gear from the zone after Exile though). All macguffin slots unlocked. (I even have room to equip the beard macguffins again, even though their bonus doesn't actually affect anything anyway. (Apparently the beard macguffins have been bugged for a long time and 4G doesn't want to fix the bug since people have gotten along just fine without their benefit anyway.)) I used a muffin a few days ago (I don't think I got anywhere near 10 hours worth of 30 minute runs done that day though, I just can't keep up with a goal like that) but that one day is so far the only time that I've specifically attempted to focus on bulking up macguffin bonuses. (Normally I'm just always aiming for 24 hour runs, although I'm inconsistent about that and lately I've gotten a lot of runs that go most of the way into a second day before I end the run.) Looking at that sheet and adjusting the macguffin levels and bonuses to my current values... Well, just taking the energy power macguffin as an example: I've got level 7842 with a 435.093% bonus, and the sheet says that after 1 cycle (activating muffin just before end of a 24 hour run and then getting 10 hours of 30 minute runs in somewhere within that next day) I would end up with a 457.021% bonus there. Granted, the cycle as the sheet's creator defined it (unless I'm misunderstanding what was intended) seems to be 48 hours long with 14 of those hours completely unaccounted for (24 hour muffin-free rest day -> activate muffin before ending that 24 hour run -> 10 hours of 30 minute runs plus 14 hours of whatever else you decide to do until the muffin wears off) so there could be a little bit extra gained from any other rebirths that get squeezed in while the muffin is active. Checking different numbers of cycles there... It would apparently take 15 or 16 cycles (150-160 hours worth of muffin-enhanced 30 minute runs, and that's probably spread out over a full month's worth of total playtime) to push my energy power bonus up to around 770% (aka 100 + 2 x 335). (To be more specific, 15 cycles has it ending on about 764%. The next cycle would then push it to almost 786%) It's kind of crazy to see some idea of what could happen to some of the other bonuses after 15 of those cycles though. Gold (level 10697) could go from 24758% to 72291%. Stats (level 11460) could go from 54911% to 156757%. Number could go from 1422% to 3006%. Augments (level 9557) could go from 4681% to 13174%. Hmmm.... Most macguffins have severe dimishing returns on what benefit they get from having higher levels, but there are a few that don't have diminishing returns. (Gold, augments, and stats, right?) Any use you can get out of the macguffin fruits and the macguffin spells along the way while going through these cycles would improve the gains from those specific macguffins. For those specific macguffins, this means that you might be able to see noticeably better results than what the sheet estimates. ... Suggestion for 4G to consider: Expand the beard feature and repurpose the beard macguffins to tie into the new functionality so that those two macguffins can be fixed without changing the existing functionality of current beards. Like maybe there could be an alternative tab (accessed in a similar way as swapping between energy NGUs and magic NGUs) called Wigs. A permanent resource (with a name like Scraps or Trimmings or Samples) gets collected while beards are leveling up in the current rebirth (come up with an overflow mechanic here that rewards having more bars than necessary to level them at max speed) and also when beards gain permanent levels when you rebirth (this part would likely be the smaller portion of Scrap gains since logically most of it is getting turned into the permanent beard bonuses instead). Create a selection of different types of Wigs. (I'm not sure what bonuses to suggest that they could have.) I suppose the Wigs would have their own separate slot unlocks that we'd have to get from various sources, rather than sharing slots with the Beards. Having any type of Wig active would start it leveling up using R3 stats to determine its leveling speed in the same way that the beards use energy and magic stats. You wouldn't need R3 unlocked to be able to collect the Scraps, but obviously you wouldn't be able to actually use up any Scraps until after you unlock R3. (Maybe consider creating some sort of passive low-power generic boost based on the number of Scrap currently stockpiled so that there's some sort of subtle functionality here before R3 is unlocked? Like maybe for example it could be a 1% boost when the number of Scraps is in the e1 range, 2% in the e2 range, 3% in the e3 range, etc.?) Wig levels would consume some amount of Scraps per level, similar to how augment and blood magic levels consume gold. The new purpose of the beard macguffins would be to enhance Scrap earnings. I'd imagine that we'd probably reach a saturation point at some time during each rebirth where Scrap costs for additional Wig levels exceed the Scrap income and Wig levels would slow down regardless of how fast the R3 stats say that they should be capable of leveling up. Perks / Quirks / Wishes that influence Scrap earnings could be mostly limited to sadistic difficulty so that the beard macguffins are the primary booster before a player gets that far.

The DR for each type of guff is taken into account on the sheet already, but the lack of DR on gold/stats/augs is misleading since the features they affect have heavy DR built in. As far as gains go, guff runs are generally the best gains you can get in a day if you're willing to do them and have the AP to burn, it's just a lot of effort for an idle game.